Automatic dipping tanks

Is there any one who sells fully automated tanks like lays film sprays activator and dips for you
«1

Comments

  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 10,131Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited November 2015
    Yep. I saw a system by HG Arts that did it. Only one I have seen w the film applicator. We have automated spray system and dip arm, but we lay the film on.

    Have you checked into the continuous feed systems? Where the film is carried along the top of the water? These sometimes roll on an activator before the film goes into the water.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 10,131Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 10,131Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
  • airtimegrafixairtimegrafix Posts: 2,150Member ✭✭✭✭
    there water is sooooo clean lol!!
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,335Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2015
    Looks like a lot more film gets wasted then doing it manually though
  • airtimegrafixairtimegrafix Posts: 2,150Member ✭✭✭✭
    IceMaster said:

    Looks like a lot more film gets wasted then doing it manually though

    that's true but they probally dip 500 a day! so the wasted film is no issue!
  • divinedesignkoatingsdivinedesignkoatings Posts: 62Member
    I'm looking for automatic spraying and arms if possible can you send me the info on pricing @MidOhioHydrographics thanks
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 10,131Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited November 2015
    Oh we waste very little. This is especially true when I hire a guy and the first day he loads some racks, presses a button, and 36 pistol sides come out perfect dips. Don't get me wrong, issues happen. And usually when we catch it, we have many bad parts, not just 1. But I did a lot of testing to ensure the parts were as close together as they could be, and at the proper angles. Our setup is much like the HGArts video. But we lay the film on by hand.
  • divinedesignkoatingsdivinedesignkoatings Posts: 62Member
    @MidOhioHydrographics do you sell this set up if so how much. 
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 7,192Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @divinedesignkoatings I don't know what your process is, or what you are getting into, but there is a pretty hefty price tag on set up's that do the work for you. Automated spray system like @MidOhioHydrographics has is going to cost $10,000 at least. A dip arm with speed change is going to cost another $10,000. Get into robotic 5 axis activation and dipping and that goes up to $100,000. There are ways to make this cheaper, but you are going to need to get creative.

    Like I said, I don't know your process, but $20,000 right off the top is a steep hill
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 14,064Administrator El Jefe
    Pretty sure the auto spray was $30,000 if I am not mistaken?...
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 14,064Administrator El Jefe
    And yes the money they spent on making those videos is insane...you know they have a separate room with all that equipment in there for trial and error...so double all that equipment...thos jigs were brand spanking new and freshly powder coated or painted...I'm jealous honestly...but the reality is that most of us will never attain that kind of workload or secure a single contract with that kind of demand...

    And in the end? Just because it is automated does not mean it is fool proof and all you have to do is push a button (which is what they want you to believe)...the reality is that when things go wrong? They go wrong with 10 helmets instead of 1 and now your warranty has just gone through the roof...nothing brings out the flaws in your procedure like automation...ask me how I know?...
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 10,131Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    TWN's auto spray system was $30,000. We built our own (not everyone has a robot programmer/electrical engineer combined with a complete machine shop available to them). But even ours cost about $15,000. You would have to contact LP to see what the tank + Dip arm runs these days. It was about $15k for the package if I'm not mistaken.

    ..the reality is that when things go wrong? They go wrong with 10 helmets instead of 1 and now your warranty has just gone through the roof...nothing brings out the flaws in your procedure like automation...ask me how I know?...

    100% correct.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 7,192Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @K2Concepts I was trying to soften the blow a little and still bring things back down to earth. The fact is, unless you have contracts signed for production, and have done something like this before... Don't bother. Bigger than you is going to eat you alive. @MidOhioHydrographics is right (not everyone has a robot programmer/electrical engineer combined with a complete machine shop available to them) If you don't? Joe is going to take business away from you all day long, nothing personal, and he isn't out headhunting. When you tell your customer that you can't get a tech out there for 3 weeks to fix your dip arm? They are going to start shopping...
  • divinedesignkoatingsdivinedesignkoatings Posts: 62Member
    edited November 2015
    @WileECoyote ;I am a electric engineer, I program plc's and trouble shoot electronic equipment for a living. I have plenty experience creating communication between PLCs and robotics . my father has been a welder/hvac/plumber for going on 30 years . I also did HVAC and plumbing for 11 years before finishing my degree. Needless to say we have all the necessities to achieve a  automated system. @MidOhioHydrographics would you mind sending me the mechanical l just wonder what method they have used to get the conveyor to make its run. I am thinking I will just integrate a plc into the process. with a timer on once the push button is activated which will run a conveyer hooked up to a DC motor for however many seconds forward to however many seconds in reverse with  a motor controller for speed and a pneumatic release valve for the spray. the tricky part will be getting that sweet spot. It may take a lot of material but definitely not 30k. For the machinist part I have a real close bud from college who is a electromechanical engineer and has a full machine shop. @K2Concepts the reason I would like to automate my system is because my full time  job will not allow me the time to dip . so I would like to automate it so my father which has broke his back for me all his life can make a easier living. 
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 10,131Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    We did ours variable speed. Less speed = more activator. Pretty simple. Just set a number from 1-100. But, still have to be able to dial in the automatic spray guns. This can be quite testing. Lol. But anyway, what's your email address? I'll send over some pics.

  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 7,192Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @divinedesignkoatings Didn't mean to offend your qualifications, but you have to realize how many people ask questions that are completely unrealistic to their situations.
  • divinedesignkoatingsdivinedesignkoatings Posts: 62Member
    @WileECoyote no no never offended were all part of this discussion Im just new and I wanted to introduce myself
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 10,131Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Email sent. Hope it came through ok!
  • divinedesignkoatingsdivinedesignkoatings Posts: 62Member
    @MidOhioHydrographics hey Joe thanks a lot man for the pictures.  I have a twenty thousand dollar budget and it seems as if imma come quite close that machinery is no joke. Do you ever have activation issues??? The reason I'm looking into building this is so my dad can do his dips without the worry of over/ under activation. I would also like to integrate a couple configurations where he can spray smaller lengths of the tank like 1to12
     1to 30 and 1to60 but the programmings the least of my worries
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 10,131Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Unfortunately, yes. We still sometimes have issues. But it's rare. Still have to know how to read your parts. And remember activator application is the #1 problem area of this process. And activator gun setup is crucial. Now you'll have 4 guns to dial in exact, and make sure they're all working together correctly. Once it's there? It's awesome. But it took us quite a while to dial in.

    Quite honestly, we rarely use the automation system for small dips. We just hand spray and read the film. 99% of custom jobs are hand sprayed. It's much more efficient than spending an hour trying to find the right setting for a film you've never used.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 14,064Administrator El Jefe
    Like I said...there is no "push a button and it all works"...
  • HydrodipNYHydrodipNY Posts: 13Member
    Unfortunately, yes. We still sometimes have issues. But it's rare. Still have to know how to read your parts. And remember activator application is the #1 problem area of this process. And activator gun setup is crucial. Now you'll have 4 guns to dial in exact, and make sure they're all working together correctly. Once it's there? It's awesome. But it took us quite a while to dial in. Quite honestly, we rarely use the automation system for small dips. We just hand spray and read the film. 99% of custom jobs are hand sprayed. It's much more efficient than spending an hour trying to find the right setting for a film you've never used.
    Which activator guns do you use? Is there guns available similar to the Bigbrain pot activators?
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 10,131Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited November 5
    @HydrodipNY Yes. That is what most automated systems use, Guns and Tips similar to the Brain Pot. Unfortunately, the guns we currently use are not something I am willing or able to share outright. They are the guns used by the guys at Immersion Graphics (Realtree) on their automated setups, and I was given the information by Lamie when I got licensed and was down there visiting.

    I have already invested over $25,000 into my new dip arm and sprayer (not including the price of the tank). Jake at PA Hydrographics is custom building a 12' dip area tank for me for the setup. I have a ton of time and money invested into the design and integration of my automated systems. They're all designed by me and custom built, so that's one area where I keep my secrets. I apologize.

    I will say, that if you do enough research, you can find the information. Quite a few people have built their own versions of the Brain Pot.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 10,131Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    I would honestly look into this setup. no idea how they can do it for $7500...
    http://hgarts.com/hg-arts-full-automatic-dipping-machine.html
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 7,192Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited November 5
    @HydrodipNY the airless sprayers, bells, and lvlp guns have been around for a long time... but you are getting in to areas where your average Joe (Ha!) shouldn't be trying to figure this all out on their own. You may need to contact an integrator, or have a professional tank built. I have worked with this stuff for years and it isn't easy.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 10,131Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Yeah I should mention, I have access to a wealth of production knowledge and manufacturing experience. And a family friend who can build and program control
    Boxes. Helps tremendously. .
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 7,192Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @MidOhioHydrographics I didn't want to brag for you, so I didn't mention that. There is A LOT of behind the scenes stuff going on at Mid Ohio. This isn't just some guys with a home built tank. Programming, fabricating, prototyping... Unless you already know how to do this stuff, it's probably over your head.
Sign In or Register to comment.