Duracoat/cerakote Questions

Me and my partners have recently looked into doing duracoat/cerakote/gunkote and dipping to them since a large number of what we do is firearms. This would just be an added benefit to the customer if they wanted it. I have a few questions about it;
1) We do not have access to a blast cabinet and are not really looking to invest in one as our compressor would have to be replaced as well. Could we just scuff with 400-600 grit and be good?
2)Does the cerakote (baking kind) really have that much more durability than the air dry duracoat?
3) has anyone used all three; duracoat, cerakote, and gunkote? If so how did you like the three?
I just shot a speed shape with duracoat, dipped, and put the duraclear sealant over top. Going to give it 3 weeks or so and then beat it around to see how it holds up but I'm not sure its going to be the same as a slide, barrel, etc.
Opinions?
1) We do not have access to a blast cabinet and are not really looking to invest in one as our compressor would have to be replaced as well. Could we just scuff with 400-600 grit and be good?
2)Does the cerakote (baking kind) really have that much more durability than the air dry duracoat?
3) has anyone used all three; duracoat, cerakote, and gunkote? If so how did you like the three?
I just shot a speed shape with duracoat, dipped, and put the duraclear sealant over top. Going to give it 3 weeks or so and then beat it around to see how it holds up but I'm not sure its going to be the same as a slide, barrel, etc.
Opinions?
Comments
My normal Hydrographics finish is more durable than duracoat.
It is easiest to dip to out of the three you mentioned. Anything thermal cure is going to be a pain, due to having to find that small little window where it's still able to take the dip.
You need a blast cabinet. I don't see how a shop that works on guns can realistically continue without it. You'll never get in all of the tiny nooks and crannies of gun parts by scuffing.
For single colors or custom patterns, I always use Cerakote. It is super easy to work with, and extremely durable. However, like I said earlier, it's still a complete pain to dip to. I'll do it if the customer requests it, but they are paying extra. If you missed that window and your dip slides off, or the paint is still too soft and gets smudged? Guess what, you got to start all the way back over, which means you will HAVE to blast it.
Gunkote is a good product. It can be tedious to apply though, because it is so thin, you need to preheat the parts in order to prevent runs. Multiple light coats on it, where Cerakote is more like one. I haven't dipped to it, not really interested in trying at this point.
Air dry Cerakote is garbage. You might as well rattle can it. Great heat resistance, but it sin't going to hold up to any type of abuse.
Cerakote is expensive but works great I use there clear on most everything
Duracoat dips the best I mostly use it ,,draw back is cure time. Unless using excellorator
go with DuraCoat I was a hater until I started using it. Get a blast cabinet Harbor freight 150 with coupon works better than scuffing. PCL/26 is also a great clear to use here is DuraCoat with Cerakote clear
I know I'll have to tape off the internal sides of the firearm so that I don't make the parts too thick. Not enough room in there to stack finishes, but I can stack several on the exterior.
Thanks in advance for the help!
I understand waterborne is easiest to work with for a base. Is there a big difference in working with the sponsored products or can I just pick practically any product and be happy?
I'm going to see if I can find out more about dipping using duracoat as a base and ceracoat clear as a finish, since those are what I have on hand.
If anyone has any info on dip window or tips on using those 2 for hydrographics I'm all ears. I used the search function for this site before posting. I didn't get much :(. I'd bet it's been discussed in detail here before though.
Thanks again for the help guys.
Overall I guess your line of thinking is confusing. You want the durability of Duracoat or Ceracoat, but then put paint over that... The paint and print would wear away very quickly, then you would see the original coating below if your guns are seeing that much abuse. People have been coating guns with Aqualac, OHW and other 2K bases for a long time with success and very happy customers.
Then you are looking for an "affordable" paint/base at Lowes, but now want to use exclusively MUCH more expensive coatings... Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel here? Use the quality products available from the sponsors and get your feet under you. Then you can experiment from there.
With wear resistance I'm not concerned about the graphic. Compared to anodizing or cerakote it will have to be babied. That's obvious. What I'm concerned with is the wear of the aluminum. The hard anodizing or cerakote, or gunkote, adds to the service life of the firearm by several thousand rounds. If I can help it, I don't want to shorten the service life of these firearms. I'm not sure there is a way around it, but thankfully the anodizing on the aluminum has already begun to wear on the interior of the firearm I am currently working on, so I won't be reducing the service life of that particular gun.
Still I wanted to be able to maintain the hardness or come close to factory for the interior parts. I am still considering masking the interior, leaving the original finish on future firearms, but this one needs a refinish on the interior anyway.
Given that I have a dip window expressed by duracoat, and I have the satisfactory colors on hand. I'll probably try that today. If that does not work right off, I'll order the right stuff from the sponsors here. I would still like to know how to dip onto cerakote for future aluminum jobs, if anyone has that figured out. I would think that some method of flash heating the exterior then dipping would work, but I don't have the patience to keep playing with cerakote right now. I haven't given up on it, but since duracoat should be easier, that's my next thing to try.
Thanks again for all of the help.
Understand that I have coated many, many firearms with this method. In the thousands. (Actaully, I just checked the numbers... In 2016, we coated over 21,000 firearms and over 7,000 pair of accessory grips. Wow, I didn't even realize it was that many...) We tested our process thoroughly. I can't have thousands of parts coming back due to an issue on my end.
All that being said, this is our process, our parts, and it works well for us. Your mileage may vary.
Aqualac + Clear will be thicker than other coatings you mentioned and I would avoid tight tolerances. Aqualac applies at about 0.001" to 0.0015" from my testing. The clear will add about another 0.001" to 0.0015". So you could be upward of 0.003" on some areas.
I forgot to mention the NanoChem clear is very chemical resistant. I have tested Hoppe's #9, Butch's Bore Shine, Sweets 7.62 Copper Solvent, Gun Scrubber aerosol, and Rem Oil with no adverse affect s at all. I was very happy with this. We did have one issue with an Outer's Degreaser/Cleaner that specifically says to no apply to coated/painted surfaces, and the gentleman was aware before it happened. It started to lift. But one small issue out of that many guns? I'll take it.
There are other great clears out there that work very well. Big Brain's Dead Flat is just as good, just as dead flat, and just as chemical resistant. We don't use it becuase it's slightly more expensive in drum quantities and we like the dry "Grippy" texture the NanoChem leaves.
Thanks again.
Aqualac is normally dry in 15-20 minutes under normal conditions (70 deg, 50% humidity). You can dip right after. The other paints will dry the same or sometimes a little quicker since they're solvent.