Yeti 30oz tumbler technique -over activated?

Hoff_BogDeep

Good morning everyone. 

I've been working on some projects for the wife and I before taking on any paying jobs, making some hits on speed shapes, finding out what paint works best(the stubborn way), drilling technique, etc. Its been a steep learning curve so I've lurked and watched Jim's videos, but I've finally found something I can't seem to figure out. 

30oz tumblers. The shape is odd, but workable. However I am getting a line right around the beginning/end of the cup that seems to be over activated. The hit looks good, but as soon as it comes out of the tank, the print slides off and turns to gel. 

I tried over and over and get the same result, I even got creative with the "double dip method and it more or less took the ink off, and the primer. 

Sanded to bare metal
Decreased
Primered with hydro dip specific primer from dip123
Dip123 purple basket weave
Hydroshizz activator(dip123 brand specified for this film)
1.5 tip spray gun
92 degree tank
Glass film out
Dip and roll method 

Any advice or tips appreciated. I would love to get this straightened out before taking on any paying jobs. 

PagesHydroDipping

The first one is hard to tell because you sanded it off already but if its only at your seem line its from rolling to slow. Right at the end as your rolling the water is starting to run down the cup. Just roll a little faster and make sure your rolling into the film not just rolling in place. In the 2nd picture that is trapped air from yoi entering the water to flat. Its been a while since we have done any tumblers but I believe we found it best on the 30oz to enter the water with the bottom first

Hoff_BogDeep

@PagesHydroDipping

For some reason the pictures uploaded backwards. First shot is the bottom pic. The top was the result after I tried to double dip. It was so gooey that I decided to sand it off and that is where it sits today. 

I will try your technique with bottom first. I had thought maybe I were going too slow, but I guess it's a good thing I asked

WileECoyote

And stop dipping with that activator and paint. Get some One Hit Wonder and some superbrew. Sorry to say, you are a little ways away from being ready to take on customers. Even if you had this one process dialed in, you are inevitably going to be asked to dip something you haven't tried yet... And your customer won't want to wait for you to figure out that process. Keep at it, you just need more time and practice.

Hoff_BogDeep

WileECoyote said:

And stop dipping with that activator and paint. Get some One Hit Wonder and some superbrew. Sorry to say, you are a little ways away from being ready to take on customers. Even if you had this one process dialed in, you are inevitably going to be asked to dip something you haven't tried yet... And your customer won't want to wait for you to figure out that process. Keep at it, you just need more time and practice.

Already in the process of ordering OHW and superbrew. I got this gallon of activator free when I bought my tank so I've been trying to use that. I took their manufacturer suggestions since i was new to the hobby. It doesn't seem to be very consistent with glassing out and doesn't like transparent carbon films much. I didn't know of OHW until recently so I am excited to get some in and try it. 

And I 100% agree on the paid jobs. Its not really my intention to make a business out of this. But im sure word will eventually get out between friends and they will be asking to have stuff done. For now I've just been dipping my own items and some of my wife's that she asked to be done. Its mainly just an expensive hobby for me to customize my other hobbies 😊. But I'll take any advice I can get so I'm not wasting materials in the process. 

NotSoFast

Dip123 (or any other online seller) doesn't "make" the film, so there is no reason to buy their "recommended" activator for their films. They are just trying to make more money off of you. They are just reselling the same films that every other online seller offers. They recommend their activator because beginners don't know that their activator is crap. The more you mess up and experiment with getting the process right, the more material you have to buy. Get the stuff that is proven to work. It's a bonus that most of us use the products that @WileECoyote noted. We know how they react and makes it a lot easier to diagnose problem you may run into.

The pic with the lines of spots if from entering the water too flat and trapping air.

When rolling items, be sure to "roll" it forward into the film as if you are rolling at across a table, not just spinning it in place. This will prevent the film from stretching and tearing at the edge like in the pic with the voids at the bottom.

Hoff_BogDeep

NotSoFast said:

Dip123 (or any other online seller) doesn't "make" the film, so there is no reason to buy their "recommended" activator for their films. They are just trying to make more money off of you. They are just reselling the same films that every other online seller offers. They recommend their activator because beginners don't know that their activator is crap. The more you mess up and experiment with getting the process right, the more material you have to buy. Get the stuff that is proven to work. It's a bonus that most of us use the products that @WileECoyote noted. We know how they react and makes it a lot easier to diagnose problem you may run into. The pic with the lines of spots if from entering the water too flat and trapping air. When rolling items, be sure to "roll" it forward into the film as if you are rolling at across a table, not just spinning it in place. This will prevent the film from stretching and tearing at the edge like in the pic with the voids at the bottom.

When rolled, how deep should the cup be kept? Halfway submerged, or just enough to get the surface in the water? 

And the voids at the bottom are actually intentional. My wife asked that the top and bottom lip of the tumbler be kept bare metal like how it came from yeti. Here is a "good" picture of the opposite side without the tape. 

NotSoFast

I go about a third to half of the way submerged, I guess. Never really measured it, though.

Hoff_BogDeep

Some progress. The purple basket weave film somehow broke down on the water so I sat my wifes cup aside and worked on my ozark. Had to get creative with the rolling process. My sample dip seemed to have the film gather towards the top and the seam was very pronounced with it being perpendicular to the top and bottom of the tumbler. While dipping my tumbler I flipped it upside down and rolled at an angle. It gave me a bit more control over the rolling speed and put the seam on an angle. 

looch

Devious dips sells a jig for rolling cups. It doesn't mean you will still have to learn techniques and how to read film and whatever else but it can help with the cups 

WileECoyote

There you go, already figuring out something that works for you. In the training that Jim did, he has the students practice rolling on a piece of 3" PVC pipe. Essentially the part can't be submerged at all, or the water would rush in and ruin the dip, so there is other techniques out there. The benefit of the pipe is you get practice on something you can easily repaint or throw away at the end. 

Hoff_BogDeep

WileECoyote said:

There you go, already figuring out something that works for you. In the training that Jim did, he has the students practice rolling on a piece of 3" PVC pipe. Essentially the part can't be submerged at all, or the water would rush in and ruin the dip, so there is other techniques out there. The benefit of the pipe is you get practice on something you can easily repaint or throw away at the end. 

I saw that last night. And I neber thought of that. I'm headed to the hardware store to get a few things for a set angle jig, I'll grab some pvc as well. 

@looch I'll take a look into them. I saw another member had used cork, and even kong toys as well. I'm certain I have a 3" and 4" marine plug stashed at my dad's garage from previous projects, I may give those a try as well. 

With the orange cup I sped up the rolling process and I did notice a difference on how the film moved on the water, seemed more consistent. It still left me puzzled with the purple basket weave falling apart. I am ordering more of it but from Kansas hydro or liquid concepts this time. I've had some issues with the film ends being "melted" together with my order from the other company. I suppose from here the next change will be activator(superbrew) and primer/paint/clear (OHW). Thank you all for the advice. It is greatly appreciated. 

studebaker

Your "Purple Basket" film was exposed to humidity and caused most of the problems you are describing. PROTECT ALL YOU FILM FROM HUMIDITY AT ALL TIMES. That's why it "fell apart" so fast.

The problem was not from the vendor, there's no need to shop around unless you have opened a package and it's was already flimsy. Then, go shopping for a different vendor.

WileECoyote

Try getting a clear weave carbon fiber and changing the base color. It's like unlimited films in one...

Hoff_BogDeep

@studebaker

It was like that from the day I got it. All of the clear edges stuck together from the time i opened the vaccum pack. My films are stored in my house in the computer room,  70 degrees, very little humidity if any. I also cut them Inside and only take them to the garage when they go right to to water. I have multiple films from this shipment that are doing what the purple basket weave did. Some of them are so thin that they immediately pull away from the tape during the 60 second soak time.

@WileECoyote

I have some with me. I actually just used it last week to make a nice red/black carbon for a friend's center console trim. The activator I have doesn't like it unfortunately. The superbrew should take care of that though. The wife picked the basket weave. Gotta give her what she wants lol

PristineKreations

My advice on tumblers, which is what @studebaker told me a long time ago when I first started, is to just continuously practice.  I wouldn’t ever use a jig unless doing a bunch at once, in which then I would understand.  Eventually your seams will line up and be straight, the films will lay the way you want, and you’ll have the ability to roll items in your back pocket.  Keep up the good work man!

Hoff_BogDeep

PristineKreations said:

My advice on tumblers, which is what @studebaker told me a long time ago when I first started, is to just continuously practice.  I wouldn’t ever use a jig unless doing a bunch at once, in which then I would understand.  Eventually your seams will line up and be straight, the films will lay the way you want, and you’ll have the ability to roll items in your back pocket.  Keep up the good work man!

Thank you for the kind words! I have been at it a good bit the last few days. Mainly practicing with spare film I don't plan to use. Been rocking the 3" pvc pipe. I ordered close to a dozen tumblers in 20 and 30oz sizes from Amazon. My OHW paint and film arrived yesterday so I hope to get some film on them this week and see how it all turns out.

I made a trip to Menards yesterday for some stuff to make a jig, or at least something to hold onto. Shoving my hand in the cup was creating consistency issues and allowing water to get inside. Hopefully the $20 investment proves useful.

PristineKreations

Hoff_BogDeep said:

PristineKreations said:

My advice on tumblers, which is what @studebaker told me a long time ago when I first started, is to just continuously practice.  I wouldn’t ever use a jig unless doing a bunch at once, in which then I would understand.  Eventually your seams will line up and be straight, the films will lay the way you want, and you’ll have the ability to roll items in your back pocket.  Keep up the good work man!

Thank you for the kind words! I have been at it a good bit the last few days. Mainly practicing with spare film I don't plan to use. Been rocking the 3" pvc pipe. I ordered close to a dozen tumblers in 20 and 30oz sizes from Amazon. My OHW paint and film arrived yesterday so I hope to get some film on them this week and see how it all turns out.

I made a trip to Menards yesterday for some stuff to make a jig, or at least something to hold onto. Shoving my hand in the cup was creating consistency issues and allowing water to get inside. Hopefully the $20 investment proves useful.

To prevent water getting into the cup, I usually just lay some masking tape on the inside of the cup, this extend past the top of the cup a little allowing the film to not cut off directly at the top. Then i'll slide a foam cup inside of the cup and any excess water or film will get stuck in the foam cup. Rinse, pull cup out, tape off, and you're ready to go. You can also keep reusing the foam cups until they break apart.

studebaker

Or just balloons. Also on some brands of tumblers a quart paint can lid fits exactly. Just hot glue a dowel rod on for a rolling handle. I've seen red cups used as an opening filler, and even rubber expansion plugs. The list is as long as your imagination!

Hoff_BogDeep

I've got a good system going, I probably won't change it now. Once the cups are on the rubber pvc line bushings I don't take them off until the clear coat is dry, works perfectly. 

I doubt I continue to do the cups though. I managed to re-injure an old injury that required surgery a few years ago in my bicep. It prevents me from being able to roll or hold anything steady. I tried a carbon fiber cup the other day and wound up dropping the cup about halfway through. Ruined the dip completely. Its actually up in the air if I will be able to dip anything moving forward if it requires two hands.