Tips for spraying matte and satin clears?

DarkKnightFX

I’m spraying small objects like helmets and have no issues with 2k show clear gloss finishes. But when I spray matte or satin clear I’m hitting a little bit of a learning curve... if I lay it on wet like I do my gloss clear, it stacks up too much and will become kinda glossy. If I lay it on too little, then it ends up looking matte, but also having a dry spray like texture.. trying to find a middle ground gets me in the middle... lol. I end up having little patches where it looks glossier then other areas... wondering what is the proper way to spray matte and satin clears.

Just want to put it out there that I’m using specialist paints, paints and clears, so they are of course compatible with each other.

I’m using an Iwata lph80 at 14psi and a 1.0 fluid tip for my clears. I also have a 1.2, .6 and .8 fluid tip as well if you think switching it up to any of those would help. I also have a sata minijet 4400b HVLP gun with a 1.0 tip... I use that gun for my paints, but can use it for clear too if you think it would do better than the Iwata. But I like the Iwata because of the low psi, it produces a lot less overspray and moves less air, which results in less dust and debris getting into the clear. 

Thanks in advance. 

MidOhioHydrographics

Change your clear. We had similar issues with some clears, but have found a couple that will lay totally matte no matter how much you lay on. Here are three options we have found that work great. One wet coat, and walk away.

Big Brain Dead Flat (http://gobigbrain.com/brain-dead-flat-clear/)
NanoChem 0-1% Gloss Deet Resistant (Marc Devaud [email protected])
Prime Coatings Diamond Matte (http://www.primecoatings.net/)

All lay down with no shine. If you want to be able to adjust the gloss level to a satin, get in touch with Marc at OnPace and he can get you a gloss and matte that you can mix at different ratios to to vary the gloss levels.

studebaker

And.... welcome to the forum!

DarkKnightFX

MidOhioHydrographics said:

Change your clear. We had similar issues with some clears, but have found a couple that will lay totally matte no matter how much you lay on. Here are three options we have found that work great. One wet coat, and walk away. Big Brain Dead Flat (http://gobigbrain.com/brain-dead-flat-clear/) NanoChem 0-1% Gloss Deet Resistant (Marc Devaud [email protected]) Prime Coatings Diamond Matte (http://www.primecoatings.net/) All lay down with no shine. If you want to be able to adjust the gloss level to a satin, get in touch with Marc at OnPace and he can get you a gloss and matte that you can mix at different ratios to to vary the gloss levels.

I’ll take your advice and give the big brain dead flat a try. I just ordered a gallon of the stuff. So hopefully it’s all it’s cracked up to be. Thanks 

DarkKnightFX

Just a quick update. I decided to wet sand my clear down a little with 800 grit and then proceed to reapply the clear. I did 2 wet coats about 15 mins apart which as expected resulted in an almost full gloss finish. I then let it flash for about half an hour and applied the final coat of clear as a light coat. Almost dusting it.. still maintained a close proximity to the helmet to avoid the dry spraying but a fast enough stroke that it didn’t allow a lot of build up. The results seem to be fair. At least I’ve come up with a system so I can use up the rest of this clear as I have another 2 or 3 quarts of the stuff left. Then I can completely
switch over to the big brain dead flat clear. 

DarkKnightFX

Also spoke to someone at big brain about a satin finish. They said just change the mix ratio from 4:1 to 2:1... I’m guessing they are referring to the activator? Or does it come with a separate matting agent that you mix? Or is the matting agent in the activator? I’m confused. Lol. I’ll give them a call again. 

looch

@onehitwonder also has flat clear new one is dead flat

WileECoyote

The problem is that the clear you are using is showing off your inconsistencies in your spray technique. The clears that @MidOhioHydrographics mentioned compensate for some of that problem. Use 500 to wetsand clear, or you are working too hard. Let your build coats fully cure and then spray a final light coat (consistently) with that material and you will be fine. Good opportunity to work on your technique.

DarkKnightFX

WileECoyote said:

The problem is that the clear you are using is showing off your inconsistencies in your spray technique. The clears that @MidOhioHydrographics mentioned compensate for some of that problem. Use 500 to wetsand clear, or you are working too hard. Let your build coats fully cure and then spray a final light coat (consistently) with that material and you will be fine. Good opportunity to work on your technique.

Okay. So when spraying matte clear, you spray one coat at a time and let each coat fully cure before putting on the next? I’m not understanding... I’ve always been told to let it flash but not cure... that there should be some light level of tackiness to it to ensure a proper bond between coats. I’m of course open to learning other techniques. 

MidOhioHydrographics

Just spray one wet coat. We do thousands of parts this way.

DarkKnightFX

MidOhioHydrographics said:

Just spray one wet coat. We do thousands of parts this way.

With the new big brain dead flat that’s exactly how I intend to spray. But I’m up for any techniques people want to advise me on so I can also experiment with the several quarts of the specialist paints, matte clear that I have yet to use.

DarkKnightFX

WileECoyote said:

The problem is that the clear you are using is showing off your inconsistencies in your spray technique. The clears that @MidOhioHydrographics mentioned compensate for some of that problem. Use 500 to wetsand clear, or you are working too hard. Let your build coats fully cure and then spray a final light coat (consistently) with that material and you will be fine. Good opportunity to work on your technique.

Just read your comment again and I must have misread it the first time around. So I think I understand what you mean. Thank you. I’ll give it a try. 

WileECoyote

You only need one coat of flat clear to give you the effect. IF you need build coats, you can use anything (usually gloss is the most abundant in the shop). You NEVER put another coat over something that isn't fully cured, that is an unknown amount of solvent that is still to evaporate off. If you aren't going to scuff the previous coat, you still need to work in the "recaotability window" but no, never over something that is still tacky.

DarkKnightFX

WileECoyote said:

You only need one coat of flat clear to give you the effect. IF you need build coats, you can use anything (usually gloss is the most abundant in the shop). You NEVER put another coat over something that isn't fully cured, that is an unknown amount of solvent that is still to evaporate off. If you aren't going to scuff the previous coat, you still need to work in the "recaotability window" but no, never over something that is still tacky.

Okay I read you. Now for example, a
helmet. Do you think it requires build coats? Or is it okay just to just throw down a quick single coat of flat clear?

WileECoyote

Depends on what you are doing and how long you want it to last. If you are adding pinstripes, doing a 2 tone, adding some decals that need to be cleared over and based with a metalic paint, you are probably going to have had 4 coats of clear throughout the process, and 1 or 2 final. If you are just putting a print on a base color, you are only required to put on 1, but the first time the guy sets it down, it's going to scratch the print. Almost everything we did was motorcycle parts, and they always had 3 coats of 2k clear at the end.

NotSoFast

Another tip that is free to try is make sure your matte and satin clears are WELL mixed before pouring into the mixing cup. There are solids in the can/bottle that settle to the bottom. These are what makes it come out matte. If they are not properly and evenly distributed, they are not going to end up on the part resulting in a shinier than intended final product. Shake/stir the container until you think it's good enough and then do it again. An extra minute or two costs very little compared to a redo.

MidOhioHydrographics

NotSoFast said:

Another tip that is free to try is make sure your matte and satin clears are WELL mixed before pouring into the mixing cup. There are solids in the can/bottle that settle to the bottom. These are what makes it come out matte. If they are not properly and evenly distributed, they are not going to end up on the part resulting in a shinier than intended final product. Shake/stir the container until you think it's good enough and then do it again. An extra minute or two costs very little compared to a redo.

100% correct and I'm sorry for not catching that. You definitely need to mix well. If there is thick, white goop at the bottom, you need to break it up with a stick and get it mixed in the best you can. A Dedoes style mixing lid on a gallon container works well.

DarkKnightFX

This is my website: www.darkknightfx.com

Just to give you insight to exactly what I’m painting, I’m doing custom costume helmets/collectibles. The paintjob I give them is usually a silver base with a candy red top coat. I have a few designs that require large areas to be masked off and painted black and followed up with other smaller areas to be painted a
silver/chrome like color.

On my more complex designs I usually paint the black areas first, allow the paint to cure overnight before masking those areas off and then do some light sanding on the remaining panels to be painted, followed up by the silver base and candy coats. I then unmask the whole thing and lay down the clearcoat. Afterwards I wait another day and then mask off and paint the silver accent parts.

the paint always goes on smooth, it’s usually the clear coat stage that makes or breaks the paintjob. I do thoroughly mix my clears as I use a drill with a mixing bit to make sure all the matting agents at the bottom are broken up and dissolved before I spray them. 

As far durability is concerned, my customers will probably be touching the helmets quite often but they aren’t intended for impacts or anything like that. I’ve always put build coats on them, because I thought it was required to have about 2-3 coats of clear on stuff. But I think that train of thought was more for when I used to do 2k show clear finishes, on those paint jobs scratches and swirl marks were able to be wetsanded, buffed and polished away. Since a matte finish cannot be polished and the only way to really fix a scratch is to basically repaint the helmet, I’m questioning if it’s even required to have build coats on these. What do you think?

WileECoyote

Then build coats are probably not necessary. You are correct that this is probably a holdover from your former finishing work.

I am sure that there are others, but Prime coatings makes a clear that can be wetsanded and buffed and still looks matte.

DarkKnightFX

WileECoyote said:

Then build coats are probably not necessary. You are correct that this is probably a holdover from your former finishing work.

I am sure that there are others, but Prime coatings makes a clear that can be wetsanded and buffed and still looks matte.

Damn.. now Im going to have to look into prime coatings. I had no idea there were matte clears that could be buffed. Ive googled stuff like that before and nothing ever comes up. Im learning so much from this forum and I thank you and everyone else that has offered assistance!

WileECoyote

As far as I know, it has been out for about 5 years or so now. Keep in mind, these guys deal in volume... so selling a quart to a guy off the street is not really their priority.

DarkKnightFX

Wow that was fast! Just received my gallon of big brain dead flat clear. Can’t wait to give it a try!

NotSoFast

DarkKnightFX said:

Wow that was fast! Just received my gallon of big brain dead flat clear. Can’t wait to give it a try!

That stuff is great. For what you are doing, mix well, shoot one nice wet, but without runs coat, let dry. It's the only flat clear we use. Not a hint of sheen at all.

DarkKnightFX

NotSoFast said:

Wow that was fast! Just received my gallon of big brain dead flat clear. Can’t wait to give it a try!

That stuff is great. For what you are doing, mix well, shoot one nice wet, but without runs coat, let dry. It's the only flat clear we use. Not a hint of sheen at all.

I just tried it out and wow! This stuff went on great and flattened out pretty quickly. I’m guessing it will flatten out a bit more overnight. I think I had some residue from my tack cloth stick to a part of my helmet. There is a small
area on one side that looks like there are a small smudge of contaminates under the clear. Still looks great but could have done without that. Not the clear coats fault obviously, but man this stuff is great. Thank you for recommending it. I did the suggested 4:1 mix ratio off the can so I have a baseline of how it looks when flat. Next time I’m going to try the 2:1 mix ratio to see if the finish becomes a little more satin.