Pa hydrographic tank

17ventus17ventus Posts: 24Member
Looking to see if any members had any advice on what to do , we just purchased a 6 ft tank and now 12 days in it churns the trash on the bottom , where you cannot get a clean dip,  it also swirls at the spillover dam to send the trash from the last dip back to the center of tank.  I believe the spray bar holes are to deep in water over a inch deep , and they are at least half inch holes,  this is causing turbulence in tank stirring it up , and i get no help from jake , i know everyone says he's the best , but all he tells me Is that's the design always works,  well this one doesn't,  please anyone respond , don't even get any bubbles when spray bar is active , fully submerged in water over a inch 2 pics 1st showing how trash gets sent back to middle , second shows how far top of spray bar holes are down into water creating no bubbles only rushing water underneath surface
«1

Comments

  • studebakerstudebaker ✭✭✭✭✭ Posts: 3,409Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19
    Thank you for the pictures in support of your question.... But they don't help so much. Is there any chance of a video of it in operation? I suspect you have too much water in your tank... I know, it should be right up to the spillway, but it looks like your overflow area is too full but I can't tell from the one picture of your rubber ducky. It may just be a case of leveling your tank.
    Post edited by studebaker on
  • 17ventus17ventus Posts: 24Member
    The water level is controlled by the spill over dam in the dip area,  that is just a shallow spillover with fillet material , i have video but can't upload to big , 
  • 17ventus17ventus Posts: 24Member
    Here is a screenshot from video showing how the trash get swirled by a EDDIE current back to the center of tank , water level according to Jake should be 2 inches below  filter material in spillover side of dam which it is , spillover damn controls water height , spray bar does not tickle top of water thi clear trash , but just shoots underneath the surface under trash like i said previous holes in spray bar are at least one inch deep  in water , hope this helps , Jake just keeps calling me a dumb **badword** and asking of i was on drugs , please i need some advice,  before i put my old tank back into service , this is a beautiful tank,  just doesn't perform like it should
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote El Moderator Posts: 7,130Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    How long are you running it after dips? are you taking the dams out when you run the tank? There should not be any bubbles from the spray bar if it is working correctly (I suspect your old tank was sucking air). It is fine if the tank stirs up crap from the bottom... thats actually good. You just need to run it long enough that it eventually goes over the dam.
  • 17ventus17ventus Posts: 24Member
    edited August 12
    When running production you can only run one for a minute or two our old tank barely had bubbles if any and just barley ticked the surface of the water , and did not stir up muck in tank , stirring up bottom of tank is not fine for clean dips with no issues , never heard of stirring up bottom Is a good thing , and I'm not new to dipping got over a million in sales every year been at it for 6 years now,  I've had a properly operating tank for the last 5.5 years bought this one to replace other tank but this one is slowing production down , without it not cleaning surface area , without running pump 5 to 10 mins each time , also had anyone heard the heaters won't turn on unless pumps are running?
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote El Moderator Posts: 7,130Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    From your initial question I did not gather your level of experience. Or how short your cycle time was. For most people not running production, stuff being stirred up from the bottom simply keeps more of it in suspension, eventually going over the dam.

    If your sprayer bar is not moving enough over the surface, then it is set too low, or the dam is set too high. Is the weir height adjustable? Heaters only turning on while pump is running may be a design function at @pahydrographics, I don't have enough experience with those tanks to know, but I could see advantages to that design.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics El Moderator Posts: 10,101Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited August 13
    We have a liquid print tank and dip on nearly your same level, and now just ordered a tank from jake for our expansion. Our LP tank is awful and the jets barely move the water at the back part of the tank. The flow is angled to the front of the tank, and the back corner by the overflow gets no movement. We have never had any trouble from the trash in the water that is floating around. It typically doesn’t affect anything since it’s already wet. What problems are you seeing it cause? We run pump while removing parts from the arm, and then scrape along the surface w our dam to remove bubbles and any big crud, then move on to the next dip. Total cycle time about 4 minutes, full tank (2.2 m) dip w dip arm and automated sprayer. So we are moving pretty quick. No chance to remove all the floating pieces.

    I’m having Jake build mine on a leveling stand so I can make sure the jets are just under the water. 1” does sound too deep. Should be just under the surface I would think. Last PA tanks I have seen worked great.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics El Moderator Posts: 10,101Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited August 13
    If I’m not mistaken, is there a bypass valve to slow down the flow to the jets?
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts El Jefe Posts: 14,024Administrator El Jefe
    Well first off? Floating pieces will not stick to the parts that are being dipped...not saying you don't know what you are talking about? But I shot a specific video showing how the floating film CANNOT stick to a part...once the debris is under the PVA of the next piece of film? The PVA acts as a protective layer...and that the whole video shows it...I demonstrated it so I am not sure what the concern is there?

    Second the trash swirling?...Yea mine does that as well...never given me any problems...and yes I can shoot a video if you like on that as well...

    Third...bubbles while the spray bar is active? Your kidding right? The LAST thing you want is bubbles...they will cause more trouble than you are already experiencing...they usually end up becoming a void...

    Forth...holes located 1" below the surface? Well maybe...I locate mine 3/4' below the surface and I don't seem to have a problem moving the water....so I don't think and extra 1/4" is going to drastically change things...at least it would have to be proved to me...

    Lastly? Heaters not turning on unless the pump is on? Yea that is, unfortunately, a UL thing. In order for Jake to get a UL listing on his control panel? They require the heaters to not engage unless the pump is engaged...that's not his fault...he is just playing by the rules he was given...Yes my heater will kick on when I turn them on but...my panel is not UL rated and neither is your old panel if this feature is part of your old panel design...

    So in short? I am not sure you have a really good argument for being upset other than "The new tank doesn't work like the old tank"...in my humble opinion...
  • SpinnerSpinner ✭✭✭ Posts: 252Member ✭✭✭
    Would shimming the right side of the tank by a 1/4" prove or disprove the hole position theory? And if it does indeed fix the problem, then problem solved, right?
  • ForsiForsi ✭✭✭ Posts: 342Member ✭✭✭
    I have a 10' tank from PA Hydrographics and it has always worked just fine. We ran it in a production capacity and for custom work and never had any issues. Our water level was always such that it came to the edge of the spillway when the pump was not on. Even in the 10' tank we did not have any issues with the debris being cycled to the spillway when the pumps were running. After we had done a lot of dips we would get a bit of debris coming up from the bottom of the tank (that had settled to the bottom over time) when the jets were on, but never had an issue with it impeding our dips. As @K2Concepts stated regarding the heaters only running when the pump is on that is a UL thing and nothing Jake can do since his are UL-rated and are built in the USA.

    When we ran production in our 10' tank we would cycle the water for 1-3 minutes in between dips and that worked fine.

    If I didn't decide to get out of dipping recently I would have confidently continued using the PA 10' tank we had so I am hopeful you are able to get a resolution to your issues as Jake really does build a great tank. Whoever buys my 10' tank will be getting off to a great start with a great tank...I hope you are able to get to the point where you are as pleased with your PA tank. :(

  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics El Moderator Posts: 10,101Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Also, we have a PA hydro control box on our current LP tank. So we just undid the pump needing to be on for the heaters, and added a circulation pump. Know anyone that can do a little control box programming?
  • 17ventus17ventus Posts: 24Member
    edited August 13
    Well first off? Floating pieces will not stick to the parts that are being dipped...not saying you don't know what you are talking about? But I shot a specific video showing how the floating film CANNOT stick to a part...once the debris is under the PVA of the next piece of film? The PVA acts as a protective layer...and that the whole video shows it...I demonstrated it so I am not sure what the concern is there? Second the trash swirling?...Yea mine does that as well...never given me any problems...and yes I can shoot a video if you like on that as well... Third...bubbles while the spray bar is active? Your kidding right? The LAST thing you want is bubbles...they will cause more trouble than you are already experiencing...they usually end up becoming a void... Forth...holes located 1" below the surface? Well maybe...I locate mine 3/4' below the surface and I don't seem to have a problem moving the water....so I don't think and extra 1/4" is going to drastically change things...at least it would have to be proved to me... Lastly? Heaters not turning on unless the pump is on? Yea that is, unfortunately, a UL thing. In order for Jake to get a UL listing on his control panel? They require the heaters to not engage unless the pump is engaged...that's not his fault...he is just playing by the rules he was given...Yes my heater will kick on when I turn them on but...my panel is not UL rated and neither is your old panel if this feature is part of your old panel design... So in short? I am not sure you have a really good argument for being upset other than "The new tank doesn't work like the old tank"...in my humble opinion...
    It don't stick to the part but on carbon fiber if a big string floats up from being churned it definitely can cause distortions when part is being dipped.  Our pump Is pumping super hard , and really Jim they ar to deep in water pushing So hard the current rushes under spent film. thus causing all kinds of turbulence on tank , when i cut pump off,  the stir up is bad , cannot get a clean surface for next dip
  • 17ventus17ventus Posts: 24Member
    The grand argument would be that my 200 dollar 6ft tank i built myself,  works and operated better than a 7000 dollar tank , i would think when they advertise they have years of experience and come highly recommended that's why i went with them , now it don't function as it should have video proving  this , all im saying they probably make a great tank that everyone loves , this one must just been that one that slipped  through , and it has an issue that no one wants to believe it could just be the tank pump i have text messages that jake himself saying he believes we have a pressure issue , and not sure what pump was installed in this tank , could be they put the wrong size pump in tank.  This is from Jake exact qoute of him saying this , and him also saying he never said that both on same text , i can post if needed to show
  • ForsiForsi ✭✭✭ Posts: 342Member ✭✭✭
    Hope you are able to get something worked out...
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts El Jefe Posts: 14,024Administrator El Jefe
    Spinner said:

    Would shimming the right side of the tank by a 1/4" prove or disprove the hole position theory? And if it does indeed fix the problem, then problem solved, right?

    @17ventus Have you tried this suggestion?...And check the horsepower rating on your pump...should be a 1/2hp pump...at least thats what we use...Flotech 5512 I believe...
  • 17ventus17ventus Posts: 24Member
    Did just that now tank is at least cleaning trash off top of water surface , like it should vs sitting back to middle of tank , pump Is pumping really hard , but no easy way to control it , without installing shut off valve , but there's really no room to install it  since it's a submerged pump that has  very limited room to work with , waiting on a response from jake , showed him video of shimmed side , working now as it should , waiting to see
  • 17ventus17ventus Posts: 24Member
    Here is some pics , as you can see the first pic now shows water level and top location of water holes. just under surface , the black line above water line is where water used to be at before raising and thus causing the issue at hand,   second pic what we had to do to correct issue with Jack under tank
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics El Moderator Posts: 10,101Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Our tank required a lot of adjusting to get properly leveled. But it has leveling feet, which I would want on all tanks, including the one Jake is building for me now. Otherwise, you're only able to deal with how level the floor is, and hope the tank was built 100% accurate when compared to a perfectly level floor.

    Glad you're getting it worked out! But are those leveling legs in the photo? Can it be adjusted in and out? I haven't seen that exact style before.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote El Moderator Posts: 7,130Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Just going to say this. Those feet are made to turn and adjust the height. I am guessing if you run a level over the sides of your tank you are going to find that the tank isn't sitting right
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics El Moderator Posts: 10,101Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator

    Just going to say this. Those feet are made to turn and adjust the height. I am guessing if you run a level over the sides of your tank you are going to find that the tank isn't sitting right

    That’s kind of what I was getting at.... but with more fluff to make it sound nicer.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts El Jefe Posts: 14,024Administrator El Jefe
    Submerged pump?...have to see that...
  • 17ventus17ventus Posts: 24Member
    Submerged pump?...have to see that...
    Yes they are submerged pumps he is using in the spill over side , and i know the fet run out but that tank is out  of level and feet  coming close  to running out of  thread with it sitting this way over an inch , when level you can see the old water line by the black ink marks , we do level first thing that's when it had issues , now sitting this way , works almost like it should , except pump is pumping like hell
  • 17ventus17ventus Posts: 24Member
    Here is pic of submerged pump , can't see under water , note power cord going from control box to down in tank to pump
  • 17ventus17ventus Posts: 24Member
    edited August 20
    Here is a level on it now , remember this is a 6ft tank and being that out of level within that span is a lot , what that equals to is at spill over side it's from floor exactly 40 inches to top rail of tank other end where water jets are to top of rail Is exactly 41 inches to be exact 
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts El Jefe Posts: 14,024Administrator El Jefe
    Well, that's a new one on me...but ya got it to work right?...
  • 17ventus17ventus Posts: 24Member
    We got it to work , but like i said pump I'd still pumping easy to hard still causing turbulence coming out of the first two water jets on left and right side of inlet tee , other 3 jets past those 2 on either side are fine , but don't we all agree i shouldn't have to raise one side of tank a inch ot off level to operate as it  shoul .  Especially paying over 7000 grand , who else agrees with me on this one , ohg you weld in water jets you must make damn certain they are in correct location or you will have undesirable issue .  With no way of end user correcting 
  • 17ventus17ventus Posts: 24Member
    Well, that's a new one on me...but ya got it to work right?...
    Kind of what i thought about submerged pump,  never advertised this was a submerged pump only found out  when delivered 
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics El Moderator Posts: 10,101Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    I had to adjust mine about 3/4” to get the flow I wanted, and I will post a video of the flow not being even... and I paid $15k.... if I had to do it again? I’d buy a PA Hydro tank from the start. And I’ve seen TWN tanks that are much more expensive than mine and work like crap.

    That being said, I agree with you that the jets should have been welded on better. But w the leveling feet, it’s not really a concern. Water finds its own level, so you just adjust the jets to where they need to be. Like they are now. Not sure about the flow being off. May be an issue w where the inlet is or the hole sizes being a little off?
Sign In or Register to comment.