C/G clamps with broad flat soft jaw contacts

shaushau Posts: 10Member
edited June 22 in Tips and Techniques
Moderator @K2Concepts why did my original discussion get auto-deleted? Whenever I make quick successive edits to a post, your forum software deletes the entire thread thinking that it's a bot or spam! I lost a lot of effort in that thread and one of the other members also posted some valuable input that is now also lost! :'(

In any case, I'll re-write it to keep the discussion going for now:
I'm looking for a quick-release clamp that can be used to secure a flat dipped panel for polishing. It must have broad contact points to distribute the pressure and reduce the chance of marring the recently dipped and cleared surface
It needs to be a C/G shape in other to clear any rims on the underside of the table

I could not find such a product on the market
Context
I'm polishing panels about 0.5m square, but the force of the rotary polisher will displace and send the piece flying


on a small table with a routing pad





Here were the best candidates:

Contact points too small and hard;


Needs to be broader like such:



Similarly, but much cheaper:


Contact points again far to small but really nice C-shape for clearing any table rims on the underside:



So far this is the best:

if only because it has contact pads that can be broadened with their wider adaptor pad (at 1m50s in the video):


Also in this video:


Yet as the grip was designed for use in wood-working, I reckon the contact points would be too hard and will leave marks on the freshly dipped, cleared, polished surface. Also the grip mechanism is designed like a vice, so it's not just a biting mechanism that holds it in pace but a tightening screwing, vice mechanism which most certainly will apply too much pressure and marr the freshly cleared surface. Especially when you can keep tightening it with no guide as to when to stop.

A helpful member ( @Spinner ) suggested using a sandbag weight that can be re-positioned or raising the perimeter of the table to hold the panel in place, before the entire original thread got deleted by the forum software.


Post edited by shau on

Comments

  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,975Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Use bench dogs, which are pegs that sit into a hole in a table, and an end vice w the same pegs. I’ll find some photos. Not too difficult to make.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,975Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    It’s a common problem for holding boards flat for planing and sanding. There are also these toggle clamps that could be used opposite a couple dowels in a bench.








    For this toggle clamp, make a wide flat piece, or use a couple of them, and clamp the panel against a piece of wood screwed to the bench at the other end.

    https://www.amazon.com/MSI-PRO-MSI-302F-Quick-Release-Toggle-Clamps/dp/B0000224BL/ref=asc_df_B0000224BL/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309802506143&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13244699780784142010&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9015618&hvtargid=pla-556737501797&psc=1
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,975Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    As an easier method, just grab some double stick tape or a grippy mat that will “stick” the panel in place.

    https://www.rockler.com/non-slip-router-mat
  • shaushau Posts: 10Member
    edited June 22
    @MidOhioHydrographics Thank you, a very educational response - unfortunately I don't have the benefit of a huge weighted table with holes in it :( I only have a small foldable table, most of my tables have plastic table tops. I do use a routing (grip) pad but I find it isn't always adequate. The panels can move during polishing/sanding.

    Also my panels are variable in size so I'd need a securing system that is adaptable like the wedge lock.
    Post edited by shau on
  • studebakerstudebaker Posts: 3,314Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    So far every requirement you indicated you need points to a vacuum table. Here's a Youtube search for Vacuum Table.

  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,914Administrator El Jefe
    @shau2 Well...first off? I don’t make the software nor did I design it. So I can’t change something I know nothing about...second? It’s a protection and if you could see the amount of spam bots that hit this site and are deleted before it gets out? You would appreciate the safety measures...

    Whenever I reduce them? The bots find a way to use that and spam the forum....just last year they finally figured out a way around the protocols and it took me 3 or 4 hours to wipe everything out and clean up the forum...this place was a mess for a day...

    So the bottom line is that I cannot make everyone happy...but if you lose a thread or a post because the safety protocols are in place? Then so be it...My moderators and I spend no small amount of time keeping this forum clean and I see no need to increase the work for them and I by dropping the fences that protect the forum...

    On the bright side? I found your deleted thread and reinstalled it...take what you can from it and I will try and combine the threads later...
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,914Administrator El Jefe
    edited June 22
    Oh and for your clamps? Just use some 1/4 round wood and a small brad nailer...cut the 1/4 round into 3” pieces and slide them against your panel...shoot a brad nail or 2 through the wood and into the plastic table and it will lock it in place...use a screwdriver to pry the wood and brad up when you are done...works better with wood tables but ya gotta use what ya got...

    That’s what we do....
  • shaushau Posts: 10Member
    edited June 22
    Excellent ideas - however, if I'm not wrong, every approach above risks scratching, or marring the newly polished surface at the contact points. There would have to be some fabric cushion or foam to protect the newly finished surface (or edges) from any damage... I don't think there's any ready-made tool or solution. How do you ensure you don't ruin the surface as it's very delicate - newly cleared and polished?
  • SpinnerSpinner Posts: 229Member ✭✭✭
    Did you mention if it was a steel panel?  Magnetic bars or sheet underneath would be cool...
  • shaushau Posts: 10Member
    edited June 23
    Spinner said:

    Did you mention if it was a steel panel?  Magnetic bars or sheet underneath would be cool...

    haha - neat idea. But I don't know if I can buy domestic/recreational magnets that are that are strong enough to overcome a thick metal tabletop, a routing pad and the paint layers on the panel.

    I am seeing a lot of these recreational magnets used in salvaging on the coast but they are tiny:


    Post edited by shau on
  • SpinnerSpinner Posts: 229Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 23
    For the panel pictured, cut yourself a piece of 3\4" plywood just small enough for the workpiece to slip over. Then screw the ply to your workbench, countersinking the screws. That gives you access to all four edges and the top.
  • shaushau Posts: 10Member
    edited June 23
    Spinner said:

    For the panel pictured, cut yourself a piece of 3\4" plywood just small enough for the workpiece to slip over. Then screw the ply to your workbench, countersinking the screws. That gives you access to all four edges and the top.

    @Spinner @K2Concepts Forgive me as I'm not able to visualise it, can you provide a simple diagram to illustrate your intention? Is the configuration that you/Jimmy suggested able to be varied to accommodate different sized panels without having to unscrew and rescrew all the wood pieces every time I need to polish a different-sized panel?
  • smedlinsmedlin Posts: 2,121Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why don't you just use those c-clamps you showed, but put some padded wood (or something) between it and the part, to make the clamp bigger.

    Cheap and easy (like Jim's mom)
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,914Administrator El Jefe
    edited June 23
    shau said:

    Excellent ideas - however, if I'm not wrong, every approach above risks scratching, or marring the newly polished surface at the contact points. There would have to be some fabric cushion or foam to protect the newly finished surface (or edges) from any damage... I don't think there's any ready-made tool or solution. How do you ensure you don't ruin the surface as it's very delicate - newly cleared and polished?

    Well if you let the clear dry for 24 hours you can polish on it with sandpaper correct?...which is far more aggressive than a piece of 1/4 round wood...

    Look, as long as you place the 1/4 round pieces firmly in place...not so hard they will scratch? Then the panel will not move and you can polish your heart out...simply pull the pieces up for a new panel as I told you...piece of cake...leave 2 sides down if you want to speed things up or the panel changes size...I drew a reference in Sketch-Up real quick...If you really wanted to get crazy you could always hot glue a small piece of fabric to the face where the 1/4 round meets your panel...

    Simple panel with 1/4 round drawn ready to put in place...



    Side view of the 1/4 round with a staple or brad nail drawn for demo purposes only...



    3D reference showing 2 sides locked in...



    Overhead view with all 4 sides locked in...



    BUT if you think metal magnets and modified clamps are a better solution and will not scratch the clear on your project...you go right ahead...

    "Knowledge is power...but only if you use it"...Jim Tzu, Warrior Poet and Dip Ninja...
    Post edited by K2Concepts on
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,914Administrator El Jefe
    smedlin said:

    Why don't you just use those c-clamps you showed, but put some padded wood (or something) between it and the part, to make the clamp bigger.

    Cheap and easy (like Jim's mom)

    Yea your mom really likes the padded wood...just saying...
  • loochlooch Posts: 1,877Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    @K2Concepts I thought it was @smedlin who gets the wood when u mom beats him lol
  • smedlinsmedlin Posts: 2,121Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭

    Guess k2 has to pad his wood?

    How does that even work? Wood Extensions?
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,914Administrator El Jefe
    smedlin said:


    Guess k2 has to pad his wood?

    How does that even work? Wood Extensions?

    How you think a blockhead like you got into this world?...
  • shaushau Posts: 10Member
    @K2Concepts When the polisher gets to the corners of your wooden dogs, you would have to unscrew and reposition all the dogs... This is what you would do? I have a lot of panels to get through; so I'm look for ways to streamline the process.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,914Administrator El Jefe
    edited June 25
    shau said:
    @K2Concepts When the polisher gets to the corners of your wooden dogs, you would have to unscrew and reposition all the dogs... This is what you would do? I have a lot of panels to get through; so I'm look for ways to streamline the process.
    I have no idea what the heck you are trying to say...NO you do not unscrew the dogs when you get to the edges because the dogs are lower than the edges so obviously ? You do not have to “undog” anything until you are done with the face...but I guess polishing UP to some DIY clamp edges is easier?...Maybe you know something about polishing clear that I don't? Always a possibility...

    Lets get back to what your customer is seeing? The face...

    And THAT is the most important surface...if you cant shoot those edges in a decent “gun finish” ? Then you can always “undog” the parts and then polish the edges BUT? If you cant even shoot ONE surface without polishing? You are screwed before you start brother...

    You gotta get better or get better tools before you start inventing tools you don't even need to address a problem you could prevent?

    I am ending my support of this thread because my sarcasm is kicking in and I cant prevent what I am going to say next...
  • shaushau Posts: 10Member
    edited June 25


    shau said:

    @K2Concepts When the polisher gets to the corners of your wooden dogs, you would have to unscrew and reposition all the dogs... This is what you would do? I have a lot of panels to get through; so I'm look for ways to streamline the process.

    I have no idea what the heck you are trying to say...NO you do not unscrew the dogs when you get to the edges because the dogs are lower than the edges so obviously ? You do not have to “undog” anything until you are done with the face...but I guess polishing UP to some DIY clamp edges is easier?...Maybe you know something about polishing clear that I don't? Always a possibility...

    Lets get back to what your customer is seeing? The face...

    And THAT is the most important surface...if you cant shoot those edges in a decent “gun finish” ? Then you can always “undog” the parts and then polish the edges BUT? If you cant even shoot ONE surface without polishing? You are screwed before you start brother...

    You gotta get better or get better tools before you start inventing tools you don't even need to address a problem you could prevent?

    I am ending my support of this thread because my sarcasm is kicking in and I cant prevent what I am going to say next...

    @K2Concepts Sorry - that's my fault - I wasn't clear, my panels are much flatter, only a few mm thick, like a sheet of flat metal, so the dogs would be higher. It's not a problem if I have dogs that pop in and out of holes rather than ones that are screwed in - and then you can pop them into other holes further down the edge. But you need a big woodwork table for that.

    From the start, I just don't have the right tools, so it's just a case of improvising. Unfortunately, I'm not in an industrial zone so it makes no sense to start investing in on-site/heavy hardware. Once I have the proof of concept of the end product, I can then convince a collaborator to co-invest with me on a real worksite in a properly zoned area. Kind of a catch 22, but I don't have access to certain equipment until I can prove that I can produce work worthy of it. It's very expensive where I am, you literally need a million dollars to have what you guys have because of the high costs of land and everything else here. You know those sets of dams that cost you $15 to make? It cost me $150 to make with the cheapest gutter parts and stainless steel door handles I could find at the popular hardware store.
    Post edited by shau on
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,975Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    shau said:

    From the start, I just don't have the right tools, so it's just a case of improvising. Unfortunately, I'm not in an industrial zone so it makes no sense to start investing in on-site/heavy hardware. Once I have the proof of concept of the end product, I can then convince a collaborator to co-invest with me on a real worksite in a properly zoned area. Kind of a catch 22, but I don't have access to certain equipment until I can prove that I can produce work worthy of it.

    A good quality spray gun, quality clear coat, and plentiful clean & dry air isn't "heavy hardware" by any stretch of the imagination. By upgrading those 3 things, you will see an immediate effect in your clear. And remember your clear doesn't have to be "glass" perfect. If that's what your customer requires, then you need to charge accordingly and should have no problem investing in equipment to give them that. Check out a factory automotive finish on a higher end vehicle. If you can get a little better than that? You're golden. Just sand and polish out the ugly nibs, then move along.

    Invest in an Iwata Supernova w a 1.3 tip, run about 19lbs of clean dry air to it, and use a good high solids clear that will flow out. You won't need to polish. At most, you can apply 2-3 medium-wet coats, allow to dry overnight, wet sand it with 1000 grit, then flow coat it. It'll lay out like a mirror. But remember it takes practice to apply clear. Get some time behind the gun.
  • shaushau Posts: 10Member
    edited June 25

    shau said:

    From the start, I just don't have the right tools, so it's just a case of improvising. Unfortunately, I'm not in an industrial zone so it makes no sense to start investing in on-site/heavy hardware. Once I have the proof of concept of the end product, I can then convince a collaborator to co-invest with me on a real worksite in a properly zoned area. Kind of a catch 22, but I don't have access to certain equipment until I can prove that I can produce work worthy of it.

    A good quality spray gun, quality clear coat, and plentiful clean & dry air isn't "heavy hardware" by any stretch of the imagination. By upgrading those 3 things, you will see an immediate effect in your clear. And remember your clear doesn't have to be "glass" perfect. If that's what your customer requires, then you need to charge accordingly and should have no problem investing in equipment to give them that. Check out a factory automotive finish on a higher end vehicle. If you can get a little better than that? You're golden. Just sand and polish out the ugly nibs, then move along.

    Invest in an Iwata Supernova w a 1.3 tip, run about 19lbs of clean dry air to it, and use a good high solids clear that will flow out. You won't need to polish. At most, you can apply 2-3 medium-wet coats, allow to dry overnight, wet sand it with 1000 grit, then flow coat it. It'll lay out like a mirror. But remember it takes practice to apply clear. Get some time behind the gun.
    So I have:
    • Devilbiss GPI General Purpose Spray Gun with GP1 Aircap and 600ml Pot 1.8mm
    • Devilbiss GPI General Purpose Spray Gun with GP1 Aircap and 600ml Pot 1.4mm
    • Devilbiss GTI PRO LITE Gold 1.3mm nozzle LVMP Car Paint Tool Pistol Spray Gun 1.3mm
    Total cost of that and accessories/spare parts is $1000. Which is okay and they work beautifully. They can go with me to a real worksite one day. (Orange peel needs to be redressed because the substrate is a bit wavy, but not enough that it can't be redressed by sanding the original surface and then buffing the final layer - polishing makes a huge difference, flattens out the texture.)

    But in actual fact, these things aren't allowed to be used here. I would need a very expensive air-managed and filtered facility to meet council regulations on industrial zoned land - as it stands I'm doing things hush hush style, discretely and sparingly. In the real facility I would have a proper heavy industrial workbench with holes and dogs, vices and clamps etc. On my current premise, a workshop table could not fit through the gate or the domestic door. My tank had to be lifted by 4 people over a fence in the adjacent property and then back over the fence to our side, because it wouldn't fit through any of our gates and doors. And our property is worth a million dollars (purchased for only $175K a several decades ago), this tiny plot of land in metropolitan Sydney..

    Out the back, council regulations prohibit me from building a shed, so all my work is done out in the open air.

    I don't have woodwork equipment or a wielder, so it limits what I can achieve here. Basically most things I have, I have to use them as I come, as modifications just aren't possible. I get that this is not ideal, but it's either improvise and figure out a way, or don't do it altogether. I could buy the work bench, and the commercial sized air compressor, but I'd have nowhere to put it but out in the open (where in plain view it'd draw the ire of my neighbours). Ideally I'd need the million dollar industrial property and facilities to to go with it. Here, a little land really does cost that much. When I tried to get a lease for a small workspace in an industrial zone last year, the owner rejected my application. lmao That's Sydney for you.
    Post edited by shau on
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,997Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    MOVE
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,914Administrator El Jefe
    @shau OK brother...sorry about the rant...sometimes I feel like I am talking to a wall and I lash out to get the person to listen...personally I don’t see anyway out of your position. The only thing I could suggest is having a professional car painter shoot your clear coat for you until you can afford to move or get better tools or...well whatever it is your going to do...

    I feel for ya brother...I really do...I hate the “no win” scenario as much as the next guy...
  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,409Member, Moderator El Moderator

    @shau OK brother...sorry about the rant...sometimes I feel like I am talking to a wall and I lash out to get the person to listen...personally I don’t see anyway out of your position. The only thing I could suggest is having a professional car painter shoot your clear coat for you until you can afford to move or get better tools


    That was going to be my suggestion.

    Another reason we say this is a very expensive business to get into. there is no "cheap" was to do this right. If there were, we'd all be doing it that way.
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