The difference in Films

johnvavjohnvav Posts: 2Member
What's the difference between films. I've seen films for as low as .99ft and so far I've seen $6 per foot. does it transfer better, or colors stay brighter?
I got some of the .99 learn with but I don't see a big difference from my more expensive film.

Comments

  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,988Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    All depends on quantity you order, if it’s direct from the printer (Asia), from a distributor here that buys bulk and rolls off for customers as ordered, and the burn one is if it is branded or generic. Some is better quality. Branded/proprietary Films from companies like TWN, Mossy Oak, Realtree, etc. are premium and very consistent. Their quality control procedures are very tight and runs are consistent from one batch to another (essential for consistent dips. Other films that come direct from Asia can have little quality controls in place and vary run to run.
  • NWHNWH Posts: 84Member ✭✭

    All depends on quantity you order, if it’s direct from the printer (Asia), from a distributor here that buys bulk and rolls off for customers as ordered, and the burn one is if it is branded or generic. Some is better quality. Branded/proprietary Films from companies like TWN, Mossy Oak, Realtree, etc. are premium and very consistent. Their quality control procedures are very tight and runs are consistent from one batch to another (essential for consistent dips. Other films that come direct from Asia can have little quality controls in place and vary run to run.

    I will disagree with this statement first TWN and Mossy Oak are all made by YHT in Taiwan. They do not all act the same that is where experience comes to play there are several films that TWN makes that hydrate different and act different on the water as well when activated.
    That is the biggest problem in this industry there are no standards and that means repeat ability is very difficult from one film to the next.
    But what you do get from TWN and other companies is bent over the coals on pricing keep in mind that most suppliers are charging you a premium for even generic films they purchase by the SQ meter for like $2 a meter and sell back to you for about $15.00 a SQ meter if sell by the foot they are really sticking it to you as a meter is 39" so over a 100 meter roll they are gaining about 8 more meters of profit.
    NWH
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,988Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    NWH said:


    I will disagree with this statement first TWN and Mossy Oak are all made by YHT in Taiwan. They do not all act the same that is where experience comes to play there are several films that TWN makes that hydrate different and act different on the water as well when activated.
    That is the biggest problem in this industry there are no standards and that means repeat ability is very difficult from one film to the next.
    But what you do get from TWN and other companies is bent over the coals on pricing keep in mind that most suppliers are charging you a premium for even generic films they purchase by the SQ meter for like $2 a meter and sell back to you for about $15.00 a SQ meter if sell by the foot they are really sticking it to you as a meter is 39" so over a 100 meter roll they are gaining about 8 more meters of profit.
    NWH

    Correct on YHT and TWN/Mossy Oak. But Compared to the variations I see in bulk orders for production? Their film is consistent roll to roll. You are also correct in all films not acting the same from pattern to pattern. I'm saying the same pattern acts consistent roll to roll. Multi Cam, Kryptek, Vista etc. do not all use the same settings on our automation. All have their quirks, but those quirks are the same roll to roll. So if all else is the same (environmental conditions, etc.) then the soak, activator volume/application, and dwell can be duplicated roll to roll. One thing that will surprise you is that once we automated our activation (can be applied over our tank at speeds of 1-100 and either a single or double pass), nearly all films range form 24-27 speed setting. Can barely notice a difference. It's not like some films take 1/3 less or more.

    Now from China, I have had experiences where in a 1000m order, we have seen the pattern change color from one 250m roll to the next when coming direct from Asia. Never seen that in any large order from TWN/Mossy Oak/Realtree. Luckily it was for a manufacturer that didn't mind, and we just kept the parts sorted in batches. For a woodgrain production account we do, we have had zero issues and are about 3000 meters into orders for the project over the last 8 months, all direct from China. So I use a mix of both domestic and Asian suppliers.

    It would be hard to "standardize" film with so many printers rolling it out, and with variations in ink densities and color. That's what I mean by paying a premium for the quality control you get from Realtree, Mossy Oak, and TWN. Overall, customer service has been just fine from all 3 companies over the last 5 years.

    And as far as marking up the film.... You and I both know that running a legitimate business in the USA has it's headaches and costs. I'm not going to begrudge someone buying 1000m for $2 a meter and marking it up to resell it and make a profit. After all the overhead with employees, building rent and maintenance, utilities, growth, benefits.... who knows what their margins actually are. I've met most of the owners of the larger domestic distributors and they sure aren't driving Escalades and living in mansions. We all get customers that have said "Film is only $5 for my rifle stock, why is it $100 to dip it!?" Same goes for film companies.
  • johnvavjohnvav Posts: 2Member
    I am at the hobby lvl,  and just trying to learn, other than being able to repeat there's not a huge reason go out and by the more expensive film yet.  Eventually I am planning on dipping my sons bike.

  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,409Member, Moderator El Moderator
    johnvav said:

    I am at the hobby lvl,  and just trying to learn, other than being able to repeat there's not a huge reason go out and by the more expensive film yet.  Eventually I am planning on dipping my sons bike.

    Take good notes on what works. Number of passes of activator, brand of activator, water temp, soak time, dwell time, and more. Each film can be different in one or more of these areas.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,920Administrator El Jefe
    edited April 22
    A bike? That's a little beyond "hobbyist" levels my friend...Bikes are some of the more challenging objects to coat successfully...

    As for what suppliers charge? While it's true that profit is not a dirty word? Next time you are paying $4 or $5 bucks a gallon to fill your truck? Try and remember that the oil companies (much like the Royalty Film Suppliers) are entitled to make a profit...right?...RIGHT!...


  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,409Member, Moderator El Moderator
    Just because you aren't making any money dipping doesn't mean it's not a business. It's just a business that you are losing money at. It requires exactly the same materials, tools, techniques, and knowledge to do it in your garage as it does in a professional shop. It also takes a very long time of dipping on a consistent basis to learn how to dip consistently well. Not all films react the same on the water or when activator is applied so the "practice on cheap film" idea isn't a very solid one.

    It may be the inner curmudgeon in me, but after 4 years of this, I still can't wrap my mind around why anyone would put themselves through all this and spend so much money on a "hobby". I never knew there were so many masochists out there. ;)
  • smedlinsmedlin Posts: 2,125Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    NotSoFast said:



    It may be the inner curmudgeon in me, but after 4 years of this, I still can't wrap my mind around why anyone would put themselves through all this and spend so much money on a "hobby". I never knew there were so many masochists out there. ;)

    Hold my beer.. I got this.

    .

  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,920Administrator El Jefe
    smedlin said:



    Hold my beer.. I got this.

    .

    That's what your mom said...
  • gardnerdddgardnerddd Posts: 230Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    That's why we need to bring printing to the states. The technology is there, you have a choice to use regular PVA or Paper back PVA. The cost is not very expensive if done correctly. But the question is are we ready?
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,920Administrator El Jefe

    That's why we need to bring printing to the states. The technology is there, you have a choice to use regular PVA or Paper back PVA. The cost is not very expensive if done correctly. But the question is are we ready?

    Damn good question...
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