Which blast cabinet?

Covert_HydroFXCovert_HydroFX Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
edited August 2018 in Equipment
I'm looking at adding a blast cabinet to my tool collection. I'm on around a $1300 budget. What size is ideal for the hydrographic and cerakote industry? Would be using it for firearm and automotive parts.

Being In Ohio I have Skat Blast not too far away and like supporting Ohio business. But I have also been looking at the Cyclone and Redline cabinets. I like the clamshell design of the Redline Jumbo Clamshell

Comments

  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Member, Moderator, Business Ninja Posts: 10,305 El Moderator
    I saw you mentioned this in the email and I forgot to respond. I love my Empire, but it was over 10x your budget. We had a Grizzly Indistrial model that was around that price range and it was meh. Not bad, not great. Skat Blast has a good reputation, so do Bad Boy blasters. I have a buddy that got a Redline pressure blast and it was no good. Dust collector wouldn’t keep up.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Member, Moderator, Business Ninja Posts: 10,305 El Moderator
    But, yes. If you’re doing firearm work (Cerakote or Hydro) it’s a must. Some can do without it for Hydro, but it is required for Cerakote.
  • Covert_HydroFXCovert_HydroFX Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2018

    I saw you mentioned this in the email and I forgot to respond. I love my Empire, but it was over 10x your budget. We had a Grizzly Indistrial model that was around that price range and it was meh. Not bad, not great. Skat Blast has a good reputation, so do Bad Boy blasters. I have a buddy that got a Redline pressure blast and it was no good. Dust collector wouldn’t keep up.

    The dust collector did look a little small compared to what other brands offer. Just noticed Bad Boy is in Ohio as well. IT might be worth saving up a little extra for one of those they look a little better made with the all welded construction vs bolted together.
  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Member Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have the 960 DLX now. Started with a harbor freight and I love it compared to what I had. Works great for the amount I do. I got it on a sale and believe it was worth every penny  
  • Covert_HydroFXCovert_HydroFX Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭

    I have the 960 DLX now. Started with a harbor freight and I love it compared to what I had. Works great for the amount I do. I got it on a sale and believe it was worth every penny  

    This is the way the wife wants me to go and just take the savings compared to the Bad Boy and pick up some films, activator etc
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Member, Moderator, Business Ninja Posts: 10,305 El Moderator
    That 960 DLX looks like a great cabinet actually.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Member, Moderator, Business Ninja Posts: 10,305 El Moderator
    What size air compressor did you say you had? Make sure you check that also. Blasting takes a LOT of air. And you also want a dryer of some sort. Make sure you research how to properly run your airlines to let the air cool and water condense out, and also think about a desicant filter. Don’t want your media getting moisture in it.
  • Covert_HydroFXCovert_HydroFX Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2018

    What size air compressor did you say you had? Make sure you check that also. Blasting takes a LOT of air. And you also want a dryer of some sort. Make sure you research how to properly run your airlines to let the air cool and water condense out, and also think about a desicant filter. Don’t want your media getting moisture in it.

    Ive got a 3.7 hp 60 gal compressor that will produce 11-12 CFM at the 80psi in the cabinets specs. So it it about the middle of what they recommend for it. It has this air dryer setup, My air lines are currently a rapid air system similar to pex lines.

    http://www.usaweld.com/Max-Dry-for-Plasma-Cutters-p/25310-2.htm
  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Member Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like my but I did upgrade to an 80 gal compressor. For as much as I was blasting it worked my 60 gal. I think they call for 12 to 15 psi at 90 or something close to that
  • Covert_HydroFXCovert_HydroFX Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭

    I like my but I did upgrade to an 80 gal compressor. For as much as I was blasting it worked my 60 gal. I think they call for 12 to 15 psi at 90 or something close to that

    10-15 at 80 is what I read... A bigger and better compressor may come later. But I think for now the 60 will work for me.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Member, Moderator, Business Ninja Posts: 10,305 El Moderator
    Yeah you should be ok, but the problem comes when your compressor runs continuously and starts producing steam. You’ll be pushing that compressor at its max. Your filter setup won’t filter put steam. Run a zig zag of copper like a manifold system to cool the air. Have drain valves at each low point and drain them frequently. Also make sure you drain your compressor a couple times a day.

    Here is more info. Scroll down to see the manifold Jim put in the ceiling to allow the air to cool. You can mount it to a wall or wherever.
    http://k2forums.com/discussion/8821/opening-a-hydrographics-business-step-by-step/p4



  • Covert_HydroFXCovert_HydroFX Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
    Yeah you should be ok, but the problem comes when your compressor runs continuously and starts producing steam. You’ll be pushing that compressor at its max. Your filter setup won’t filter put steam. Run a zig zag of copper like a manifold system to cool the air. Have drain valves at each low point and drain them frequently. Also make sure you drain your compressor a couple times a day. Here is more info. Scroll down to see the manifold Jim put in the ceiling to allow the air to cool. You can mount it to a wall or wherever. http://k2forums.com/discussion/8821/opening-a-hydrographics-business-step-by-step/p4
    Deffinitely some upgrades to consider once I get deeper into this and move past the “hobbiest” stage.  And like you said start pushing my compressor to the max. In the learning/ low volume Stages Im probably fine with what I got. My current air setup was only meant to be temporary anyways until I cold afford better. 
  • PagesHydroDippingPagesHydroDipping Member Posts: 696 ✭✭✭
    I too have been looking at the 960 DLX I currently have the harbor freight special and it gets me by but definitely in need of an upgrade
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Member, Moderator, Business Ninja Posts: 10,305 El Moderator


    Deffinitely some upgrades to consider once I get deeper into this and move past the “hobbiest” stage.  And like you said start pushing my compressor to the max. In the learning/ low volume Stages Im probably fine with what I got. My current air setup was only meant to be temporary anyways until I cold afford better. 

    Your air cooling/filtration isn't something I would skimp or wait on. At least do the manifold and put your filter at the end. If your paint gun start spitting water on your parts or on your film, you'll be in trouble. You have a good filter, just need a good way to get the water out of it once your compressor heats up.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Member, Moderator, Business Ninja Posts: 7,435 El Moderator
    @Militant83 no need to quote the previous post in your post. It just makes the thread really long. If you want to alert a person that you are responding to them, you can just format their name like I did at the beginning.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Administrator Posts: 14,155 El Jefe
    Yea that 60 ain't gonna cut it man...ask me how I know?...and you need at LEAST a 7.5hp to deal with that kind of air...

    OK, just a little constructive criticism...and this is in general and not just towards you so please do not take it that way...

    Unfortunately, this is the mentality that prevails...guys want a "new toy" and then spend twice as much on fixing the problems they inadvertently cause because they didn't build up to the "new toy". Listen to what these guys are telling you...it's based on experience...they are not just keyboard jockeys...

    I have done the same thing myself in my business...upgrade a piece of equipment in the shop and then spend the next 3 months dealing with issues that I caused because I thought "ehhh...that ain't gonna happen to me"...then you start dealing with fisheye and other crap that got sucked out of your compressor or through it...and yea having a filter is great until you bury it with moisture and you start having to buy desiccant cartridges for it at $80 a pop every 3 months...or less...

    (yea you need to find out how much those cartridges are for that unit first before you buy it and if they are readily available? Or you are going to be shut down with water issues until you can get a replacement)

    Spend that money on a nice LARGE compressor, a refrigeration unit and proper airlines...get that all in place and THEN get a nice cabinet which, at that time, will fit nicely into your system and you won't be chasing ghosts in your processing...
  • Covert_HydroFXCovert_HydroFX Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    @K2Concepts @MidOhioHydrographics Something like this?
    http://www.tptools.com/Champion-Heavy-Duty-75HP-2-Stage-80-Gal-Air-Compressor,6251.html?b=d*8065

    Anything 10hp and up are all 3 phase power which doesn't work for me. There are some single phase 10hp but they are way out of my price range.
    Post edited by Covert_HydroFX on
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Member, Moderator, Business Ninja Posts: 10,305 El Moderator
    edited August 2018
  • Covert_HydroFXCovert_HydroFX Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    @MidOhioHydrographics How hard is it to convert a 3 phase unit to single? Or is it possible to take a used model and replace the 3phase motor with a single phase of equal HP?
    Post edited by Covert_HydroFX on
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Member, Moderator, Business Ninja Posts: 7,435 El Moderator
    @Militant83 You can swap motors. I don't know you or your skills... but so far you are talking about hydrodipping, sandblasting, ceracoating, air system design, compressor modifications... how much free time do you have?!
  • Covert_HydroFXCovert_HydroFX Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
    @WileECoyote I've got enough time, All things I've mentioned all go hand in hand and all parts of the same business. Why does it matter what I have talked about and how much time that I have? I'm just trying to explore my options by asking questions to people who have possibly been through this and have successful businesses. I don't have the money to buy brand new commercial grade equipment so exploring ways to make used equipment work may be the way for me to improve upon what I currently have. Isn't this what the forums are for?
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Member, Moderator, Business Ninja Posts: 10,305 El Moderator

    @WileECoyote I've got enough time, All things I've mentioned all go hand in hand and all parts of the same business. Why does it matter what I have talked about and how much time that I have? I'm just trying to explore my options by asking questions to people who have possibly been through this and have successful businesses. I don't have the money to buy brand new commercial grade equipment so exploring ways to make used equipment work may be the way for me to improve upon what I currently have. Isn't this what the forums are for?

    Yes, you are absolutely correct. That is exactly what forums are for. And also for us to give you unbiased and accurate advice and information when you ask. Don't take it personally. We don't know you from the guy down the street who tried and failed because he was doing the exact same things. We aren't trying to deter you from pursuing your hobby and business venture, just making sure you know what you're getting into. Remember the odds are already stacked against you. I think in Jim's training he quotes a statistic of 80% of small businesses fail within the first few years. What makes you part of the 20%?

    To answer your question, you can 100% get a motor to replace that air compressor motor. Find a used one, or just wait for the right deal to come along. Don't be in a hurry. Watch auctions, garage sales, etc. I ended up with a garage full of woodworking equipment when a man passed away. His wife priced everything at 50% of what it said on his receipts, and he had already got some good deals on the equipment. You are on the right track. As I mentioned in the email to you, maybe a smaller blast cabinet is the way to go. Most items you'll be doing w/ Cerakote/Hydro will fit in a smaller unit. We are just tossing out ideas based on our experiences.

    @WileECoyote is probably the most experienced process engineers on the forum. Despite him coming off dry and borderline arrogant (he's the same in person, but easier to read and funny looking) he is extremely knowledgeable. He has worked at some very large industrial painting plants and was partners in a very talented hydro shop. Take what he says seriously.
  • smedlinsmedlin Member, Business Ninja Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭✭✭





    https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200347897_200347897

    the above is the one I got.

    It's decent, and was only 1,200, which included free shipping.

    the big thing for me, is not only does it have side doors, it's also a front loader. Really saves on space in my small small small shop.

    I researched a LOT, looking for the best bang for the buck.

    Are there better ones? Of course there are. But, the price goes up.

    the only "knock" I have on it, is it came in "parts" that had to be bolted together (smaller freight for free shipping). So it leaks a bit. I had to put duct tape on the seams.

    I would rather have had one that had welded seams. But.. price goes up.

  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Member, Moderator, Business Ninja Posts: 7,435 El Moderator
    @Militant83 I really was just making a joke, that's why I prefaced it with "I don't know you or your skills". With the exception of Ceracoating, I have done each one of those jobs 10 different ways. If I was trying to do what you are doing right now, I wouldn't plan on sleeping for a month or two... And I already know how to do them.

    Trust me, I get not having the capitol for all this stuff right now, I have heard it THOUSANDS of times on this forum. Please don't think that ANYONE on here is independently wealth. But the story I see play out all the time, is a guy starts out trying to save on everything, and then realizes that no matter how many places he trims, there is only so far that will take you. Eventually you just have to put up the cash or fold. And since they didn't have the cash to begin with, they have to let it go. Simple fact is, that if they had known this on the front end, they would have saved themselves a few thousand dollars and a few months of stress.

    Just trying to keep the situation real. Its really easy to get lost in the excitment.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Member, Moderator, Business Ninja Posts: 7,435 El Moderator
  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Member, Moderator Posts: 3,517 El Moderator

    @K2Concepts @MidOhioHydrographics Something like this?
    http://www.tptools.com/Champion-Heavy-Duty-75HP-2-Stage-80-Gal-Air-Compressor,6251.html?b=d*8065

    Anything 10hp and up are all 3 phase power which doesn't work for me. There are some single phase 10hp but they are way out of my price range.

    Which is why we tell people that even a "hobby" setup will run you $10k. There is no real way around this unless you are looking to keep bandaging yourself after continually shooting yourself in the foot. If there was a cheap way to do this, then we'd all be doing it that way.
  • Covert_HydroFXCovert_HydroFX Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2018

    @Militant83 I really was just making a joke, that's why I prefaced it with "I don't know you or your skills". With the exception of Ceracoating, I have done each one of those jobs 10 different ways. If I was trying to do what you are doing right now, I wouldn't plan on sleeping for a month or two... And I already know how to do them.

    Trust me, I get not having the capitol for all this stuff right now, I have heard it THOUSANDS of times on this forum. Please don't think that ANYONE on here is independently wealth. But the story I see play out all the time, is a guy starts out trying to save on everything, and then realizes that no matter how many places he trims, there is only so far that will take you. Eventually you just have to put up the cash or fold. And since they didn't have the cash to begin with, they have to let it go. Simple fact is, that if they had known this on the front end, they would have saved themselves a few thousand dollars and a few months of stress.

    Just trying to keep the situation real. Its really easy to get lost in the excitment.

    I get that, I don't mind spending money (as long as he wife allows it) on the proper tools. Where there is a will there is a way and I have always found a way to make things work, it may just take me longer to get to the end result by having to save for certain things. I just want to make sure that when I am spending money I'm doing it in ways that keep me moving forward with my end goal and not causing situations that cause me to take several steps back do to it causing problems.

    Like Jim had pointed out the air system can be key to this business so why not upgrade that first to save headaches in quality issues in your paint etc. down the road. While you can get a way with a HF blast cabinet it doesn't seem like the air system is one to go cheap on. While I cant spend 5-10k or more on a nice screw compressor setup. I can see taking the time to save$3500 and get something like a Polarair 10hp 80gal with dryer. Buying used can save money in areas but also can cause more headaches than what it is worth sometimes because you don't know the exact condition of things when you are buying them. My biggest fear with buying used is buying something and it break shortly after buying it and then having to end up buying new anyways.

    I get caught up in wanting to have this all up and running and instant gratification. But I just need to slow down and make sure I am setting this up and getting what I need in the right order. I'm sure I can save myself money in the long run by just realizing the order of importance of certain shop tools and not buying things that I may not need right away. I know this is expensive and there is no way around that. But I can at least help relieve some of that financial load by buying and building the business a little at a time.
  • Covert_HydroFXCovert_HydroFX Member Posts: 156 ✭✭✭

    I too have been looking at the 960 DLX I currently have the harbor freight special and it gets me by but definitely in need of an upgrade

    Once I get my air system squared away I think this is the one I will be going with or the 940. I spoke with them and they are going to give me a pretty good deal on either.
    NotSoFast said:

    @K2Concepts @MidOhioHydrographics Something like this?
    http://www.tptools.com/Champion-Heavy-Duty-75HP-2-Stage-80-Gal-Air-Compressor,6251.html?b=d*8065

    Anything 10hp and up are all 3 phase power which doesn't work for me. There are some single phase 10hp but they are way out of my price range.

    Which is why we tell people that even a "hobby" setup will run you $10k. There is no real way around this unless you are looking to keep bandaging yourself after continually shooting yourself in the foot. If there was a cheap way to do this, then we'd all be doing it that way.
    Yeah, after several talks with the wife. I am going to just bite the bullet and save up for a new unit that meets my needs and will give me a little room to grow. I was going to go the used route so cut some cost. But if for some reason the used compressor crapped out on me shortly after buying it i'm stuck buying another compressor. At least with a new one it will come with a warranty, should last a long time, and parts are readily available for them.
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