My small DIY Workshop

jok178jok178 Posts: 41Member
G'day all,

Thanks to everyone who helped with guiding me through my first dip. http://k2forums.com/discussion/9396/dipping-a-stock-vertical

Since then I have had many requests from people to do work for them, including a gun shop. This got me researching and now I have opened a small on the side business, currently I am doing my first job.

I thought I would share some pics my simple cheap setup to help give others ideas.







My tank is made from an IBC container and a 200L chemical drum. I have lined the edge, made dams, overflow and filter with S/S sheet.







The pump is 8s a submersible 15,000L P/H with float switch, plumbed with Pvc through 2 bulkheads into the main tank, then runs through a check valve and upto a pvc spray bar in the centre to equalize yhenjet power. At the outside of spray bar there is 2 ball valves down low to adjust power and increase deep circulation.

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Comments

  • jok178jok178 Posts: 41Member
    edited January 2017



    Some test pieces


    Post edited by jok178 on
  • jok178jok178 Posts: 41Member
    edited January 2017
    deleted
    Post edited by jok178 on
  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,254Member, Moderator El Moderator
    I hope you AT LEAST have it plugged into a GFCI outlet. That being said, there's no way I'd dip in that death trap. :o
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    That's a new one. Yikes!
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,403Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    First dip in October, and a part time business in December... Yep, this looks about right.

    Gonna go work on my shocked face for when this all goes to hell. If there is anybody thinking of taking electrical tips from this thread, please just stick your finger into a light socket and save us the time.
    jok178 said:


    Obviously I won't go anywhere near the tank while the heater is on.

    And I hope there are no children, pets or anyone else anywhere near this thing. YOU are "smart" enough not to go anywhere near it, I just hope everyone else is smart enough to get out of the building.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Sorry @jok178 but I tend to agree w Trevor on this one. You are setting yourself up for failure due to inexperience. It's not entirely your fault, and many have fallen into this same trap. You simply don't know what you don't know. You're excited with the awesome process, have a few successeful dips under your belt, and the prospect of what seems like $$$ coming through your door.

    If you're in that much of a rush, I suggest you fly out to K2 Concepts, Big Brain, or Liquid Concepts for some proper training before you start taking on customers.

    The slower option is to read this entire forum and start practicing 8 hours a day on substrate identification, part prep, paint & primer types and their applications, dipping and all associated problems w angles, back taping, activation & rinsing, etc. etc. etc.... I would guess 6-8 months minimum by going this route.

    Remember people go to a real-life autobody school to learn how to prep, paint, and clear... dipping isn't even in there! And you're ready to start a business in a matter of a couple months.

    I don't like seeing people fail, and we see this ALL the time just on this forum. I admit I don't know exactly what all experience you have had, but from your first discussion of a Dip Kit and using their paints, along with the compressor pictured, I assume you don't have a boat load of painting experience. Right now we are here to help you get started and guide you. Just please don't put the cart in front of the horse.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,403Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @jok178 Please just take a step back for a second do not plug that thing in. If that zip tie melts you might be in a world of hurt, and extension cords laying on a possibly wet floor is a REALLY bad idea
  • loochlooch Posts: 1,731Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh hell no dont put that thing in the tank throw it in the trash and get something safe
  • jok178jok178 Posts: 41Member
    edited December 2016
    Electrical side: I definitely do not condone, had no other option for this one job. There is no water on ground, no pets of other people allowed in my shed. This item was only attached during heating and completely removed prior to touching water. I monitored the surrounding area with a laser thermometer for conductive heat transfer incase the cable tie gets too hot. Long story short, looks dodgy as hell but once saftey precautions in place it's safer than half the machinery I use daily at work.

    Business side: It's true I have bugger all experience. I did a panel spraying course about 15 years back, I am an armour, small engine mechanic, and cert4 Mechanical engineer. I have spent the last month researching everything painting and Hydro even down to reading the Material Saftey Data Sheets for Isocyanates so I will understand the chemical saftey involved. I consulted other people who run small businesses and ran my idea by them, researched a customer base and the competition. I don't expect to start making profit for 12 months but as I have a good full time job and my wife works too that is not a problem. The total investment in this including consumables and saftey equipment under $1500 The absolute worst case: I get no work at all and can't sell all my shiny new gear, so I'm out $1500, so what? Probable outcome: I get about 1 job week and make some extra cash, due to the high price of hydro in my location even doing this at 2/3 local price I will be making a fair bit of profit.

    I appreciate that I should get professional training but the cost of the plane tickets alone will be more than the entire overhead for setup.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Thanks for taking our comments in stride @jok178 as often times people get offended and mistake our honest efforts to help as insulting. Kudos for that.

    One other tid-bit... Don't forget to pay yourself. If you can work overtime at your regular job? You should be making that while dipping. If someone near you is charging 1/3 more than you and they're still in business? There is probably a reason. If your work screams quality? Don't sell yourself short.
  • jok178jok178 Posts: 41Member
    Thanks Midohio, I was fully expecting an amusing reaction out of my heater. I'm used to being told to slow down, my whole life I have just jumped headfirst into things but it's always worked out.

    Haha, I wish I got overtime. They can make me work as long as they want and I don't get anything extra. I will be charging about $100 to $140 labour for a gunstock plus consumables, I am using all top quality 2k automotive products, the same brand as the established hydro companies use. I believe they must charge more due to having a full workshop and employees to pay, plus they are not dedicated, their main work is auto spray shop. There is 3 hydro tanks in my city of 140,000 people and only one advertising, although not well. People have been seen asking around on facebook looking for somewhere to get there rifles dipped. My angle is by charging less and actively targeting the huge hunting scene I will be able to find more customers. Most people here don't even know what hydrographics is.
  • jok178jok178 Posts: 41Member


    First time spraying metallic, first time spraying 2k clear.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,403Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @jok178 I appreciate your taking advice well. I am a manufacturing engineer and had 19 years in the painting business before getting involved in this. Just because "tickets to training costs more than what you have invested so far" means nothing. By the end of this next year you are going to have MUCH more than $1500 invested if you are attempting to turn out consistent products to customers. I assure you, if you are serious about this, you are gonna pay for training (one way or the other) and flying to Ohio in spring is cheaper. But don't just take my word for it... Maybe ask the 100 people that have attended a remote, or got training in California... 
  • loochlooch Posts: 1,731Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would look at your pricing stocks go for $90 to 125 dipped usually and if you do other parts with serial numbers your gonna need a ffl 
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,340Administrator El Jefe
    This is even better than the last DIY thread...


  • jok178jok178 Posts: 41Member
    Thanks WileECoyote, I know everyone is just trying to help. Return tickets to Ohio will cost me $3,000 to $3600 (I'm not in the USA), there is one place with training in my country and flights there will be about $1200 return. I agree with you that professional training is the best bet for me; however, the agreement with the wife doesn't allow for unlimited spending on this project.

    Another option is buy a boatload of film and paint, watch hours of youtube, read bulk articles and forums and practice on free parts obtained locally from dumped cars and spare gunstocks/sights I own.

    If I was in the USA you would be correct Looch. In my town I was quoted  $380 to get my primed stock and sight dipped, my pricing is on the cheap side around here. 


  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    NotSoFast said:


    You could solve the financial problem by getting rid of the wife. THAT'S the expensive part of the money equation, anyway. ;)

    I've heard divorce is extremely expensive.... Don't think I'd try that route.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,403Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    I had a friend tell me "You know why divorce is expensive?... Cause it's WORTH it".
  • loochlooch Posts: 1,731Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Its cheaper to keep her  i been down that road 
  • jok178jok178 Posts: 41Member
    Although she is expensive, she's also 29 looking 19, smoking hot and a chef. So I'll keep hold of that one and keep letting her have her way.
  • corey1616corey1616 Posts: 74Member
    jok178 said:

    Although she is expensive, she's also 29 looking 19, smoking hot and a chef. So I'll keep hold of that one and keep letting her have her way.

    Now you have to prove it...... lol
  • BigCountryHydroBigCountryHydro Posts: 147Member ✭✭✭
    You could solve the financial problem by getting rid of the wife. THAT'S the expensive part of the money equation, anyway. ;)
    I've heard divorce is extremely expensive.... Don't think I'd try that route.
     Agreed! My wife is an attorney that does a LOT of divorce work, it is not cheap.     If I ever get a divorce, I'm really gonna get screwed!!
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,340Administrator El Jefe
    edited December 2016
    I just gotta love how the moment the OP said his wife was "smoking hot"? The whole forum forgot just how ridiculously dangerous this whole set up was...



    Sorry, brother but no...I don't give a rats behind just how "safe" you say this set up is or how much you "monitored the surrounding area"...this is just foolish and beyond any definition of "safe precautions" I have EVER seen in the last 10 years of being involved in this business...much less the 35 years I have been DIRECTLY involved with trouble shooting electricity on a daily basis...

    Dude you don't get a free pass because you "think" your set up in any way shape or form comes close to your definition of "safe"...and I don't give a hoot how many "certificates" or how much "research" you have done? That set up is just plain asinine and blatantly disregarding both your personal safety and those around you ...

    And for the members on the forum? Keep your eyes out for a "smoking hot" recently widowed female chef...
    Post edited by K2Concepts on
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator



    And for the members on the forum? Keep your eyes out for a "smoking hot" recently widowed female chef...

    Quote of the day... :rofl:
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,403Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited January 2017
    I gotta hand it too Jim, I laughed at that.

    And I didn't forget. I said my piece. And I backed off. I have been working on being nicer... I don't like it.
  • LibertymanLibertyman Posts: 953Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭
    Water and electricity, don't mix and not to be taken likely... we lost our heating elements once and used a couple horse trough heaters, ( which are designed to purposely be in the water) they worked like a charm to get the tank up to 90 degrees. But there's no way to control them to maintain the temp, but in a pinch they worked temporarily. But I wouldn't use the day in and day out. Any farm store in a colder weather state would have the, or amazon/eBay.... bottom line as Jim says don't mess around jimmy riggin, your life isn't worth it. Just use the right equipment.
    https://www.amazon.com/Allied-Precision-Premier-742G-Bucket/dp/B000BDB4UG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1483336627&sr=8-3&keywords=Bucket+heater
  • jok178jok178 Posts: 41Member
    edited January 2017
    Jim, for that to be harm of harm me/others 3 things would have to occur.

    1) Heater to be attached and on
    2) Overheating and melting of cable ties
    3) Body part submerged in water at the time when the above happens

    Saftey was:
    1) Only I was withing 3m of the device and I was watching the area
    2) I was checking the temperature with laser thermometer so I new the cable ties were secure
    3) No body parts enter the water while its in place on the tank

    This leaves zero chance of injury, as I said it was a once off measure as I'm still waiting for my heating element and control panel electrics to be delivered.

    If you think that is "asinine and blatantly disregarding both your personal safety and those around you" you'll like this then:

    On an almost daily basis I carry around a device around the bush with other people, If my finger moves accidentally then I could set off the device killing myself or others.

    Every day I operate a 3 tonne projectile in public, if I close my eyes for a few seconds or pull down on the thing on my hand I could kill multiple people without warning.

    Everything in life is dangerous without correct precautions, even the most dangerous device can be safe if used correctly.

    Also the research and certificates comment was in relation to the business operation and painting side of things and has no bearing here.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited January 2017
    Please don't take offense. You have to realize he is correct in this situation and justified in his comments relating to the photo you posted. Post that up in a "DIY electrical Forum" and see what they say! What if there was a photo posted of a guy w a gun off safety, finger on trigger, and about to sweep the muzzle past his buddy? You would also comment about how asinine it is.
    Post edited by MidOhioHydrographics on
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,340Administrator El Jefe
    edited January 2017
    Hey, no worries...I am not offended either...I call it like I see it...hot plate heating element and water together? What could possibly go wrong? Right?...



    And in case you are naive enough to think that 2 or 3 things will not happen at once? That is usually when things DO go tragically wrong...an impossible amount of odds all perfectly lined up in the wrong place at the wrong time...and they even came up with a name for that law...Murphy's Law...

    So when you purposely set the stage by challenging the laws of physics or even daring them by intentionally altering the design of a potentially life-threatening piece of equipment...(hell that hot plate heating element had warnings on it BEFORE you decided to throw it into a tub full of water)...then doom on you my friend...

    I just want you to take a minute and think about what the coroner would say as they were all standing around talking about how you got flash fried like a piece of chicken because the GFI failed and stuck closed...

    "Well, Fred, I think it was an accident"...

    "No way Norm, this was premeditated murder and set up to look like an accident. I think we need to bring in the wife for questioning. She has all the motives...young, good looking, successful career as a chef and wanting to be single again? Yea I think it was murder"

    "You know Fred? I think you are on to something here. No way in hell someone in their right mind would cook up something as dangerous as this and think it was a good idea. Call in the detectives because I think we can make this one stick!"

    "Good call Norm, and are you in the mood for dinner? All this crispy flesh is making me hungry for a charbroiled steak"

    Both cops laugh hysterically and fade to black...

    Likewise, I have said my peace and there is no need to beat on a dead horse...the only reason I contributed to this thread was in the hopes of saving some other poor fool who decided to take this route instead of running down to the local fish store and buying an aquarium heater like a sensible person would...

    Rant off...
    Post edited by K2Concepts on
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