Opening a Hydrographics Business Step by Step

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  • Crusader_CoatingsCrusader_Coatings Posts: 266Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    edited September 2016
    Two 34" exhausts, between 7.5-10hp per booth. Need 2 booths for sure, one for paint and one for powder. Possibly a 3rd booth as the production side coatings pick up. If that's the case by the time I replace 6 motors I may not be ahead of the game.. I'm supposed to be getting the specs on it today. 
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,230Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @Crusader_Coatings What HP are the motors that you are running. Motors do not cost thousands of dollars. More like hundreds. How big are your booths? And what are you painting? If you want to just talk this through, you can call me at 920-980-6137
  • Crusader_CoatingsCrusader_Coatings Posts: 266Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    7.5 to 10hp. Once I get the specs from the guy and I'll give you a call
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,230Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Most expensive one I could find, in the 10 HP category ran 38 amps and cost around $2,200. This would power a HUGE booth. One capable of painting cars. If you are not painting something that large, I suggest making your booth an appropriate size to the product you are painting (hopefully it is modular, most are) and sizing the fan correctly. This may also allow you to downsize the stack dimensions before you punch a hole in the roof, saving you money there too.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,230Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Global Finishing Solutions specs a 8' x 8' booth with a 30" exhaust fan using a 2HP motor, for reference. You are looking at about a $500 motor for that.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,259Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    I also just picked up a brand new 3hp motor for my booth at an auction for $40. It's three phase, but I wanted a backup just in case. Couldn't pass it.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,146Administrator El Jefe
    It's a catch 22...When you go to sell the building? Definitely going to be an easier and more attractive property with 3ph running to the building. Most booth motors are going to be 3 to 5 hp so yea you could get by with the single phase but definitely easier and cheaper to run 3ph in my opinion...
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,146Administrator El Jefe
    Oh and mailed out the first round of corrections...actually did it 2 days ago and then I noticed the dimensional data did not show up on the plotted plans so I had to go back into ACAD and correct that...let the planning department know to disregard the set coming...replot them and resend the corrected ones...sigh...
    And got a call from the Fire Inspector and he says the city is on board so it looks like I am going to make it there...woo hoo...
  • Crusader_CoatingsCrusader_Coatings Posts: 266Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    I talked to Bart Beal at used painting equipment. I believe he told me a 10x10 booth with 34" exhaust fan and a 7.5hp motor. He was supposed to email me the specs today. Waiting on a call from the power company about getting 3 phase power to building. Just need to price everything out and make a decision. My booth now is 9 square and it's not big enough, think I'll need bigger than 10x10 for my paint and powder booths.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,146Administrator El Jefe
    That's weird...I have a 14 x 10 and it's only a 3hp...moves 10,000 cfm...7.5 hp is WAY overkill...in my humble opinion...
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,146Administrator El Jefe
    OK picking up the keys TODAY...will start running lines this weekend...I think...




  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,230Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator

    I talked to Bart Beal at used painting equipment. I believe he told me a 10x10 booth with 34" exhaust fan and a 7.5hp motor.

    Something isn't adding up there. There is no reason for that exhaust motor to be that big.

    It's a catch 22...When you go to sell the building? Definitely going to be an easier and more attractive property with 3ph running to the building. Most booth motors are going to be 3 to 5 hp so yea you could get by with the single phase but definitely easier and cheaper to run 3ph in my opinion...

    Absolutly agree the property is more attractive with 3PH. And I wouldn't try to run a business with any real sort of machines without it.... And if I build a shed/workshop on my property, I am going to run it if I can... But if he is looking at having to shell out 7-8 thousand just to get 3 PH onsite for one exhaust fan?... its at least $6,500 dollars cheaper just to get a new motor.

    Assuming he goes to a 2 HP motor, $0.11 per Kw/H, that motor will consume 2068 w/h means it will cost $0.22 per hour to operate. He would have to leave that booth run 24 hours a day for 3.37 YEARS to break even. Install costs for running the conduit to the motor from the breaker box are negligible, as both circuits could be housed in 1/2" and would travel the same distance.

    Like I said, I agree completely that 3PH is better for resale, but if you are considering adding it JUST to power a used booth that you are getting? not worth it. Spend the money on a new booth. Grainger has them for around $5,500.
  • Crusader_CoatingsCrusader_Coatings Posts: 266Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    60-80k for 3 phase power...count me out on that
  • Crusader_CoatingsCrusader_Coatings Posts: 266Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    It's a new booth, has two 34" fans. Could it be possible one motor is running both fans? Either way im not putting 80k into this place. I'm already $100k more than I wanted to spend on a building. (Had a price in mind when I started looking, realized that price would purchase a building that needed a LOT of work).
    so with that out of the question I have 2 maybe 3 booths to power, a screw compressor when that time comes, if my powder coating keeps picking up I may have to look into a conveyer system....lot of things to replace motors on or convert
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,259Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    I say you just look for motors, and when it comes time for a screw compressor just get a single phase. Remember you can also run multiple 2-stage regular compressors. Many people run a dedicated compressor just for the

    Just as a side note, I was blasting some parts from my 5-gal paint shaker at about 70lbs in the pressure-blast cabinet (lots of air), had a guy painting, 2 guys blowing parts, and 2 guys on the tank running the automated system, and I finally maxed out my compressor. First time ever. If I hadn't been blasting so hard, wouldn't have done it, but It started kicking off the automated system due to "low pressure" warning. Mine is a 20hp Atalas-Copco, which gives about 90CFM. I don't know that the Atlas Copco's are offered in single phase, and on this website, the largest screw compressor (62CFM) I can find in single/220v is this:

    http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/EMAX-ERS0150001-Air-Compressor/p14518.html

    My regular compressor is a 10hp Emax and worked great. But I could have bought two of that screw emax for the price of my one Atlas-Copco.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,259Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Also Jim, be happy that your codes people are so lenient. I can't to ANYTHING in my shop legally. Plans have to be drawn/stamped by an architect before they're submitted. Any HVAC, Plumbing, Electrical or building mods must be done by a licensed contractor that registers w/ the city.
  • Crusader_CoatingsCrusader_Coatings Posts: 266Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    Yeah gotta search the markets a little more to find what will fit my needs. Have a couple firearm contracts once the ffl comes in. Will be a lot of sandblasting when that work comes in. My compressor now struggles to keep up. Have to upgrade 
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,259Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator

    Yeah gotta search the markets a little more to find what will fit my needs. Have a couple firearm contracts once the ffl comes in. Will be a lot of sandblasting when that work comes in. My compressor now struggles to keep up. Have to upgrade 

    Or just dedicate that one only to sandblasting, and get another for the rest of the shop.
  • UptonSpoonUptonSpoon Posts: 554Member ✭✭✭
    Good luck with the new property Jim.
  • Crusader_CoatingsCrusader_Coatings Posts: 266Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    Yeah gotta search the markets a little more to find what will fit my needs. Have a couple firearm contracts once the ffl comes in. Will be a lot of sandblasting when that work comes in. My compressor now struggles to keep up. Have to upgrade 
    Or just dedicate that one only to sandblasting, and get another for the rest of the shop.
    The way it looks I'll be doing ceramic coating and powder coating contracts for sure, might use current compressor for that. It can keep up with that process, Only need 8-10 psi at each gun for that process. To keep the flow of things I'll need a guy sandblasting all day, I think that's where I'll need the screw compressor. Right now if all I am doing is sandblasting my compressor is working hard to keep up. Lesson learned there, 60gal kobalt compressor just isn't built to handle constant air supply
  • Crusader_CoatingsCrusader_Coatings Posts: 266Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    @WileECoyote I'll take your advice and check out grainger. This booth isn't what I had in mind. Rather have a full enclosure 
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,146Administrator El Jefe
    Well, we started running conduit for the booths, compressor and tank...ran about 300' over the weekend...








    Also cut out about 500' of low voltage wiring in here...sheesh this guy was a nut...


  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,146Administrator El Jefe
    And we heard back from the AQMD for the first go round...seems they want an additional filing fee for the second booth...$620.71 to be exact...so cut the check and resubmitting today...


  • PanamaCityHydroPanamaCityHydro Posts: 554Member ✭✭✭
    geez, gonna wring out whatever they can eh?
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,230Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator

    @WileECoyote I'll take your advice and check out grainger. This booth isn't what I had in mind. Rather have a full enclosure

    That booth could be modified, but it seems like a bad place to start. There are many used out there that would be more suited to your application. That booth is ALOT of wasted airflow
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,230Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @K2Concepts any reason you are not running EMT for your conduit? For a time there we would run 2 Cat5 data lines to every drop on 3 walls in every office. Low voltage is cheap to run when the walls are off because it doesn't need to be strapped. I bet I could pull 10,000 feet out of a 2000 SqFt office space
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,259Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator

    @K2Concepts any reason you are not running EMT for your conduit?

    Same thing I wondered...
  • jtagliajtaglia Posts: 2,286Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jim, Kathy & I are coming out & staying in Palm Springs for her 50 year class reunion in Oct. If we have some time I'll stop by again to say hi. Were staying with friends of hers that live there.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,146Administrator El Jefe

    @K2Concepts any reason you are not running EMT for your conduit?

    Same thing I wondered...
    Grey Schedule 40 is MUCH easier to work with that EMT or Rigid...if you have ever tried to bend 2 or 3 90's into the same run of EMT? Then you know exactly what I am talking about...Grey is above or below ground rated. Fire, heat and corrosion resistant...non metallic...This stuff is the cat's meow when it comes to electrical...

    AND? You can actually use a bender on it...although not many people know that...lol...Or heat it up with a propane torch and bend it that way also...

    Lastly? It's half of the price of comparable EMT...without the sharp edges when you cut it...or the couplings...just use grey cement...I LOVE this stuff...
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