K2's DIY "Proper", "Professional","Production" Tank — K2Forums.com

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K2's DIY "Proper", "Professional","Production" Tank

K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,066Administrator El Jefe
Hey guys, so I know this goes totally against the general thinking that a proper tank can be built out of anything that can be glued, nailed or plastic welded together...but after a ton of research on this forum? I have come to the conclusion that I would build my next tank out of...Stainless Steel...I know that sounds extravagant to some but I am on a strict budget and I cannot afford to build this tank 2 or 3 times in order to get it right...nor do I want to outgrow the tank once this business takes off...So after running the numbers every which way I could think of? The logical choice was quality stainless steel construction...so I contracted a friend of mine to build this tank to my dimensions...8' x 4' x 30"Tall...I don't want to turn down any work that could potentially hurt my business in the long run...I also wanted to take advantage of the 1.2 and 1.3 meter films out there from Aquagraphix and Kansas Hydrographics...This will help set me apart from my competition...
Even though I am on a strict budget? I scrimped and saved and waited...I know this sounds completely crazy to some of you but I did not want to make the mistake of just going out and grabbing any old object with 4 sides that could hold water just so I could get a start on my tank. The additional waiting also allowed me to research how to control the tank, what heaters to use, how to control the temperature of the tank and what size motor to use...Man there is a ton of information on this forum and I am glad I did not just rush out and have to ask a million questions about subjects I don't know anything about...I can only imagine what kind of tank I would have built had I not realized my limitations and contracted out the work to someone who is a professional...
So I finally saved up enough to commission the tank...took about 1 1/2 weeks to build from start to finish and boy am I happy I didn't jump on the first plastic tote or milk container or old refrigerator or whatever else I passed on the side of the road...it was tempting because those things are so cheap...but I would not be deterred...especially after my research determined stainless to be the best material to build from and certainly the longest lasting...

And here is my tank so far...100% made in the USA by the way...

This is when I picked it up in Arizona...



Unloaded it at my house...



This is her new spot in the garage/studio...I will update you with more pictures of this insane build as it progresses...



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Comments

  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,205Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited July 2016
    FANTASTIC! Welcome to the forum. You made some great decisions in your setup. Congrats! Can't wait to see the awesome work you're sure to produce out of that thing.
    Post edited by MidOhioHydrographics on
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 1,007Member ✭✭✭
    DIY? NOT!
  • UKandy29UKandy29 Posts: 19Member
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,205Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    ^^^Best comment yet. Well played @UKandy29
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,066Administrator El Jefe

    DIY? NOT!

    @norcalfrank Why not? I drew the plans myself...had my buddy weld it up for me...I plan on installing the heaters and pump myself...I don't understand why if others have done the same thing then why can't I ?
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,205Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited July 2016

    DIY? NOT!

    @norcalfrank Why not? I drew the plans myself...had my buddy weld it up for me...I plan on installing the heaters and pump myself...I don't understand why if others have done the same thing then why can't I ?
    My dip arm was DIY and still built much better than any others on the market. My automated activation system was also DIY. DIY doesn't necessarily mean unprofessional.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,066Administrator El Jefe

    DIY? NOT!

    @norcalfrank Why not? I drew the plans myself...had my buddy weld it up for me...I plan on installing the heaters and pump myself...I don't understand why if others have done the same thing then why can't I ?
    My dip arm was DIY and still built much better than any others on the market. My automated activation system was also DIY. DIY doesn't necessarily mean unprofessional.
    Exactly my point...well said @MidOhioHydrographics
  • UKandy29UKandy29 Posts: 19Member
    I completely agree with you both @K2Concepts @MidOhioHydrographics ;

    If we break it down and keep it real simple it's like this - you don't see many architects working the tools on the ground. What they do, and do very well is design and oversee the construction phase.

    They specifically focus and are present for the more unique and challenging tasks of the build.

    In this instance you are completing certain parts of the build fully in keeping with a DIY project partly because you are the exception architect and can to a high standard just like @MidOhioHydrographics and partly because those exacting standards matter and that personal involvement, those touches, that hands on feel to a project still has that appeal and special place you want to be involved in.

    Okay so there's a cost saving and it's relevans because youhave the skills but the quality pay off is also huge.

    In this instance you've done just that. How do I know........ because everything about @k2concepts exudes experience and methodical planning based on hard earned experience and years of using the very tool in question.

    I think what uve done here is add a dimension to the DIY section that is completely relevant but perhaps appears a little different. 

    It's a new approach. You've taken all the learning and applied it in one way or another. You did it yourself ypur way on your terms. 

    You can probably tell by the amount of visits I've made to this forum and the time I've been active how much I've taken in.

    I've done exactly what you've done i learned all I could then exchanged my skills with those of other trades to get my tank.


  • UKandy29UKandy29 Posts: 19Member
    Slowly but surely I'm hoping to be able to give back bit by bit to the forum it really is a great place 
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 1,007Member ✭✭✭

    DIY? NOT!

    @norcalfrank Why not? I drew the plans myself...had my buddy weld it up for me...I plan on installing the heaters and pump myself...I don't understand why if others have done the same thing then why can't I ?
    I never said you couldn't. If I have a house built by a contractor, but do the painting, is it a DIY project? If I build it myself, start to finish, is it a DIY project? See the difference?

    For the record, I believe many DIY projects are better than comercial projects. And the tank in the photos is pretty bad **badword**. But having read some of the comments going back in the DIY tank forum, I didn't think that DIY tanks are very popular to some around these parts.

  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,189Member, Moderator El Moderator


    DIY? NOT!

    @norcalfrank Why not? I drew the plans myself...had my buddy weld it up for me...I plan on installing the heaters and pump myself...I don't understand why if others have done the same thing then why can't I ?
    I never said you couldn't. If I have a house built by a contractor, but do the painting, is it a DIY project? If I build it myself, start to finish, is it a DIY project? See the difference?

    For the record, I believe many DIY projects are better than comercial projects. And the tank in the photos is pretty bad **badword**. But having read some of the comments going back in the DIY tank forum, I didn't think that DIY tanks are very popular to some around these parts.

    Usually the reason they seem to not be popular here is that people seem to spend enough time and money on them by the time they get them to perform properly, they could have bought one that works in the first place.
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 1,007Member ✭✭✭
    NotSoFast said:


    DIY? NOT!

    @norcalfrank Why not? I drew the plans myself...had my buddy weld it up for me...I plan on installing the heaters and pump myself...I don't understand why if others have done the same thing then why can't I ?
    I never said you couldn't. If I have a house built by a contractor, but do the painting, is it a DIY project? If I build it myself, start to finish, is it a DIY project? See the difference?

    For the record, I believe many DIY projects are better than comercial projects. And the tank in the photos is pretty bad **badword**. But having read some of the comments going back in the DIY tank forum, I didn't think that DIY tanks are very popular to some around these parts.

    Usually the reason they seem to not be popular here is that people seem to spend enough time and money on them by the time they get them to perform properly, they could have bought one that works in the first place.
    Yeah, I can see how much time it would take to build one that worked right. Sometimes I think I'll build a tank just to see how it works. Then I come to reality that the time spent (time is money) is realy wasted.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,205Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator

    NotSoFast said:


    DIY? NOT!

    @norcalfrank Why not? I drew the plans myself...had my buddy weld it up for me...I plan on installing the heaters and pump myself...I don't understand why if others have done the same thing then why can't I ?
    I never said you couldn't. If I have a house built by a contractor, but do the painting, is it a DIY project? If I build it myself, start to finish, is it a DIY project? See the difference?

    For the record, I believe many DIY projects are better than comercial projects. And the tank in the photos is pretty bad **badword**. But having read some of the comments going back in the DIY tank forum, I didn't think that DIY tanks are very popular to some around these parts.

    Usually the reason they seem to not be popular here is that people seem to spend enough time and money on them by the time they get them to perform properly, they could have bought one that works in the first place.
    Yeah, I can see how much time it would take to build one that worked right. Sometimes I think I'll build a tank just to see how it works. Then I come to reality that the time spent (time is money) is realy wasted.
    Exactly right.
  • bforesterbforester Posts: 51Member ✭✭
    I really appreciate this forum, I've learned so 
    much from reading, watching videos and learning from others mistakes (as well as my own). I get that rattle cans don't work worth a crap, whether it be activator or rattle can paint from the hardware store. To get desired results you need the right paint, and a good activator applied by a decent air gun. Same goes for clear coat. But why have a DIY section on the forum if you're just going to talk DIY projects down every chance you get?
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,066Administrator El Jefe
    Well first off? I don't think forum members "talk down" DIY tanks every chance they get...I know I don't...I have on occasion mentioned that I really don't think certain members should be building tanks...which isn't talking down the DIY section...it's just mentioning the obvious...
    Secondly, this thread was to encourage this section and those that read it to take some time and think about what they are attempting...the overall feeling is that of "Hey I built a tank so now everything else can fall into place"...Like it was some kind of "right of passage" into the Hydrographics industry...when the reality is that it is a small part of what they are about to get into...
    Lastly, it is also to show that just because it is a DIY section? Does not mean they have some kind of limit on what they can spend...again like it was some kind of challenge to save money when in fact the poorest of decisions is investing in a poor piece of equipment...
    The point of the thread is that you can build a professional tank without limiting yourself to pieces of equipment that have outlived their former lives...or even buying something that was not designed for the purpose in the first place...or fabricating a tank out of an inferior material...and that the information is all here IN the DIY section...
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,066Administrator El Jefe


    DIY? NOT!

    @norcalfrank Why not? I drew the plans myself...had my buddy weld it up for me...I plan on installing the heaters and pump myself...I don't understand why if others have done the same thing then why can't I ?
    I never said you couldn't. If I have a house built by a contractor, but do the painting, is it a DIY project? If I build it myself, start to finish, is it a DIY project? See the difference?

    For the record, I believe many DIY projects are better than comercial projects. And the tank in the photos is pretty bad **badword**. But having read some of the comments going back in the DIY tank forum, I didn't think that DIY tanks are very popular to some around these parts.

    I don't see how you make that jump...it would be more like I hired a CARPENTER to frame the house and then I did the electrical, plumbing, insulation, drywall, roofing, stucco, painting, concrete, sprinklers, lawn...yea then I would still have to say it is a DIY project...that's why you are called a "Owner/Builder" when you file for a permit...Even the state contractor board agrees with me on this one...

    SO I drew the tank, I bought the materials and I had my friend weld the tank for me...he is not going to buy the motor, nor is he going to wire up the tank or punch in the final connections for the fill entry points, he isn't going to supply or install the heating elements or the temperature sensor...lastly he isn't going to build my control panel...so if none of these things are done by anyone but myself? Pretty sure that qualifies as a DIY project...

    Which, again, is the point of my starting this thread...to show that you can recognize that your certain skill set has limitations and hire someone to do a certain part of the job for you...and you can use superior materials...there is no shame in that...at least I am not ashamed in any way shape or form with how the project is going along...and I bet it will smoke any other DIY build out there as well as some professionally built tanks...at least that is my plan anyways...
  • UKandy29UKandy29 Posts: 19Member
    I think if the DIY tanker can accept that certain parts of the build are OK to be subbed out and that the finished project is of there design by effort and contribution then this thread will go the way it's intended.

    Here in the UK we would call this "spinning it around" and I think @K2Concepts is trying to do just that.

    Fair enough the opening thread started with a few puns at those truly shocking moments but it was in good humour if a little tongue in cheek. 

    Let's not forget all that goes into this forum, the time and effort to par take in virtually every thread especially the DIY section where above or else safety is promoted and advice designed to minimise a hit on the back pocket. Everyone takes something away.

    One guy asked asked how the business started and the answer was simple. Home depot. On the cheap followed by alot of hard work. So I think it's with hard lessons learned a new approach to DIY is being introduced. 

    I love the DIY section and the ingenuity and flair people display day after day to build what they do. They do it there way on there terms fair play.

    For some people money isn't and won't be an option it's just a hard slog and a little hope so the best ypu can do is try so let's not forget that. 

    One thing I've taken away from this is from @WileECoyote - don't touch electrics unless you know what your doing so my control panel was subbed out to a sparky. Lovely little box and only used top quality tech. 

    Did I cheat? I don't believe I did - I do I know I didn't risk killing myself because I hadn't got a clue what to do even after reading and watching youtube.

    I suppose we all take something different from it but mostly we all got to admit we love reading the posts and seeing the different stuff we all come up with.

    I say keep it coming whether it's a washing up bowl conversion or Jims latest stealth bomber tank and happy dipping!!!
  • bforesterbforester Posts: 51Member ✭✭
    @K2Concepts Love the view from your drive way.

  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 1,007Member ✭✭✭

    Well first off? I don't think forum members "talk down" DIY tanks every chance they get...I know I don't...I have on occasion mentioned that I really don't think certain members should be building tanks...which isn't talking down the DIY section...it's just mentioning the obvious...
    Secondly, this thread was to encourage this section and those that read it to take some time and think about what they are attempting...the overall feeling is that of "Hey I built a tank so now everything else can fall into place"...Like it was some kind of "right of passage" into the Hydrographics industry...when the reality is that it is a small part of what they are about to get into...
    Lastly, it is also to show that just because it is a DIY section? Does not mean they have some kind of limit on what they can spend...again like it was some kind of challenge to save money when in fact the poorest of decisions is investing in a poor piece of equipment...
    The point of the thread is that you can build a professional tank without limiting yourself to pieces of equipment that have outlived their former lives...or even buying something that was not designed for the purpose in the first place...or fabricating a tank out of an inferior material...and that the information is all here IN the DIY section...

    I don't remember saying forum members talk down on a regular basis DIY tanks. But, like I said, when I read a bunch of the older threads in that forum, I did get the idea, so there must have been enough in there to make me think that.

    What I will say is that while I believe that many here are in business full time, there are a lot that aren't. Myself for instance, and giving it a go to see what it's like, and if it could be a viable business in my area. For me, and probably many others, we can't drop $40k to to see if it's going to work. So I get the DIY deal (though I still think DIY is different that what you think it is), mostly for saving some money and maybe even getting some experience on how your equipment works.

    Truthfully, I think your reading more into what I have said that it really is.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,205Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited July 2016
    @norcalfrank it was another member that said "talk down" not you
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,205Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited July 2016


    What I will say is that while I believe that many here are in business full time, there are a lot that aren't. Myself for instance, and giving it a go to see what it's like, and if it could be a viable business in my area. For me, and probably many others, we can't drop $40k to to see if it's going to work. So I get the DIY deal (though I still think DIY is different that what you think it is), mostly for saving some money and maybe even getting some experience on how your equipment works.

    This is exactly what happens. "I am doing this as a hobby, but might make it a business." To me? It's one or the other. And that's why I try to make people seriously consider if it is cost effective to build their own tank. If it is strictly a hobby? Then yes. Do it. If it is a business? Your time will be better spent in other areas. This is a difficult, expensive process. Don't shoot yourself in the foot with inadequate equipment. Hard to swallow, but true nonetheless.
  • 3monkeyshydrodip3monkeyshydrodip Posts: 829Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    Sorry for just being all about the bananas but I thought @K2Concepts designed, build, and sold tanks already. Strange lol carry on
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,066Administrator El Jefe
    Sorry for just being all about the bananas but I thought @K2Concepts designed, build, and sold tanks already. Strange lol carry on
    Not strange at all...I do...but how do you think I got there? It wasnt because I pulled the answers out of thin air...And again you are totally missing the point I was trying to make...some will get it...most will not...just the way it is...
    It IS all about the bananas...only YOU can choose where to trade them...I am only suggesting where you can get more return for your bananas...whther you choose to listen or not? Well that is up to you...
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 1,007Member ✭✭✭


    What I will say is that while I believe that many here are in business full time, there are a lot that aren't. Myself for instance, and giving it a go to see what it's like, and if it could be a viable business in my area. For me, and probably many others, we can't drop $40k to to see if it's going to work. So I get the DIY deal (though I still think DIY is different that what you think it is), mostly for saving some money and maybe even getting some experience on how your equipment works.

    This is exactly what happens. "I am doing this as a hobby, but might make it a business." To me? It's one or the other. And that's why I try to make people seriously consider if it is cost effective to build their own tank. If it is strictly a hobby? Then yes. Do it. If it is a business? Your time will be better spent in other areas. This is a difficult, expensive process. Don't shoot yourself in the foot with inadequate equipment. Hard to swallow, but true nonetheless.
    I would guess that many start out as a hobby, then progress into a business if it is right for them and their market. It would be an extremely bad business decision to say "hey, hydrographics looks cool, so let me morgage my house and drop $30-$40k on this and see how it works." Even if you had the money, it would be foolish.

    So how about this start up scenerio...


    Get you feet wet as a hobby. Buy the minimum equipment that you need to get dipping. Learn a few things. Do I like it? Yes, then next level...

    Get out there and get some training. Some will say this should be first, but really, who is going to drop $2 grand right off the bat without knowing if you even like it. Still in it? Then...

    Build a decient real tank (heat, recirculation, etc.) And a rinse station. Or find some good stuff used. Make some money as long at the local market will let you. Save that money. Still liking it? Business building? Then...

    Now, drop some real money into comercial equipment as needed.

    I do not see that scenerio as a bad business decision. Money is spread out, making it easier to finance. You still get where you want to be, allbeit in a longer time frame, and it's financially safer and wiser. I would venture a guess that many more have went this route, than the other.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,165Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    UKandy29 said:

    One thing I've taken away from this is from @WileECoyote - don't touch electrics unless you know what your doing so my control panel was subbed out to a sparky. Lovely little box and only used top quality tech. 

    I honestly am kind of shocked (no pun intended) that this has stuck with somebody. It seems my time here may not have totally been a way to ignore my responsibilities at work...
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,066Administrator El Jefe


    What I will say is that while I believe that many here are in business full time, there are a lot that aren't. Myself for instance, and giving it a go to see what it's like, and if it could be a viable business in my area. For me, and probably many others, we can't drop $40k to to see if it's going to work. So I get the DIY deal (though I still think DIY is different that what you think it is), mostly for saving some money and maybe even getting some experience on how your equipment works.

    This is exactly what happens. "I am doing this as a hobby, but might make it a business." To me? It's one or the other. And that's why I try to make people seriously consider if it is cost effective to build their own tank. If it is strictly a hobby? Then yes. Do it. If it is a business? Your time will be better spent in other areas. This is a difficult, expensive process. Don't shoot yourself in the foot with inadequate equipment. Hard to swallow, but true nonetheless.
    I would guess that many start out as a hobby, then progress into a business if it is right for them and their market. It would be an extremely bad business decision to say "hey, hydrographics looks cool, so let me morgage my house and drop $30-$40k on this and see how it works." Even if you had the money, it would be foolish.

    So how about this start up scenerio...


    Get you feet wet as a hobby. Buy the minimum equipment that you need to get dipping. Learn a few things. Do I like it? Yes, then next level...

    Get out there and get some training. Some will say this should be first, but really, who is going to drop $2 grand right off the bat without knowing if you even like it. Still in it? Then...

    Build a decient real tank (heat, recirculation, etc.) And a rinse station. Or find some good stuff used. Make some money as long at the local market will let you. Save that money. Still liking it? Business building? Then...

    Now, drop some real money into comercial equipment as needed.

    I do not see that scenerio as a bad business decision. Money is spread out, making it easier to finance. You still get where you want to be, allbeit in a longer time frame, and it's financially safer and wiser. I would venture a guess that many more have went this route, than the other.
    OK my answer to this is in the form of talking to EVERYONE in general and NO ONE in particular...so if I use the word "you"? I am not talking to "you"...lol...

    Well, first off? That's not a business "plan"...it's an idea and and pipe dream at best...which is really "foolish"...Your first scenario left out one very important thing...you don't just start a business because you think it's "cool"...only an idiot does that...You start a business by identifying your target audience and whether or not there is a "sustainable" need...then and ONLY then do you think about starting a business...Remember the key words "sustainable need"...

    Secondly? Hell yes you better mortgage your house or at least have a line of credit...because that is what it takes to establish and run a business successfully...every business and I mean EVERY business gets into a cash crunch at some point or another...sometimes it's in the beginning or maybe it's down the line? But it happens to every business and you better damn well have a answer to that question BEFORE you start down that path or even owning a business...Hell when I started my HVAC business? I had to go out and buy a truck...which was $30,000...and then stock it with another $6,000 worth of parts...and that was before I did my first service call...and no one would even think twice about dropping that kind of cash on that business but for some reason there is a general feeling of "I'll just see if I can make money by spending nothing" attitude...which is down right foolish...So while your idea sounds kinda warm and fuzzy because there are no risks involved (or so it would seem) the reality is that when there is nothing on the line...no risks to say because there is only minimal amount of expense on the line? There is nothing to keep you going when things get tough...and they WILL get tough...who do you think is going to stick it out and keep slugging when it's all on the line? Someone who has $2,000 total in there start up company, who has a job for a safety net and so far has not made any money in the business...OR someone who has $20 or $30K wrapped up in his start up and is risking it all for his dream? What I have seen is the guy who has it all on the line is the one that somehow, some way is the one who succeeds...and I have seen it over and over again...
    You can argue with me all you wish but I have started and run 2 different businesses successfully...both start up's...and I have flown all over the country learning from the best in the business...not just my business but ANY business...seminars, workshops and one on one training...and now that I have taught over 300 individuals in the last 5 years? And helped countless others over the phone and internet? I have the proof on my side...and if you know where to look on the forum? You will see exactly what I am talking about...

    This was the nice thing about when we got into the "business"...you did not have a choice like that...you bought a tank and got trained...no if's, and's or but's...just the way it was...which MADE you do your research...it also MADE you have cash on hand or a line or credit...Which is NOT foolish...You either did...or did not...Remember the statistics are 80% of start up companies WILL FAIL...now if that number doesn't scare the crap out of you? Then you are an idiot...

    Starting a business is a VERY SERIOUS proposal...it's a life changing commitment and should damn well start being treated as such...it will affect you...it will affect your wife...it will affect your children...it will affect EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of your life so when someone says flippantly "Hey I think I am going to start a business"? or "I am going to see if I can make some money at this" when the odds are 80% will NOT? Not only are they flying in the face of established statistics...they are flirting with disaster because they have clearly not thought it though...Based on STATISTICS? The question should be "Can the business survive without making any money for the first couple of years?" "Do I have the financial resources to withstand that kind of burden" "Can I and my family withstand the mental and physical demands of running a business that, in all likelihood, drain us mentally, physically, emotionally and financially for the next 2 years?"

    Those are the questions that are NOT being addressed because they are too hard to answer...people just don't want to be honest with themselves...they don't want to commit...which is exactly why 80% of you will fail...
  • UKandy29UKandy29 Posts: 19Member
    @WileECoyote I've read alot of things on the forum and like anything as you go through things you form opinions. You can tell people who know what there talking about and your one of them.

    I took a different approach and subbed out work i wasnt competent doing on the basis of trading skills for skills if that makes sense, having listened to great advice like yours.

    But......... Some people perhaps think "yeah okay il keep asking and il eventually get it" or "chemicals, water and electricity - that doesn't sound all that bad - it's only in my DIY wooden tank in the garage connected to my family home - wheres the risk" lol and wonder why they've got issues.

    That's not a dig at DIY tankers because I am one -that's a dig at the one in a million guy that gets someone killed - the one that good guys on here are terrified about letting loose with to much information. I know that's why you have to be careful and I respect that and if no one has said it before alot of people get it that you won't just offer up plans and things because you don't want people to get hurt. 

    The truth is a little help is one thing but after that just recognise you can't do it and get proffesional work carried out. Or it forces threads to take a twist.

    So don't lose heart or patience, sadly common sense isn't everyone's gift.

    There are without doubt loads of people who have taken away alot from good people like @MidOhioHydrographics @K2Concepts @WileECoyote @Tsunami @jtaglia but perhaps don't think to drop you a pm to say "hey about that post the other day - you made me realise something so I did this.Thanks it made a difference".

    So in my way I was just trying to get that out there direct.

    Thanks again
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 1,007Member ✭✭✭
    I'm not here to argue your point. I agree to disagree.

    I too have started (from nothing) two businesses, and they were successful. Like you, one was in construction. I did start out with a $1500 truck and a bag of tools. That business bought trucks, equipment, and paid for my house, supported my family, etc. So I am no noob at business. I know it will work because I have done it, twice. Not saying it's easy doing that way, but it is viable.

    Like you say, no business is a sure thing. The economy and state legislation ruined both my last two businesses, which basically was out of my control. Never bothered to go back.

    Have a good day, Jim...
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,066Administrator El Jefe
    Frank, and you are right...and it's not easy...and there are plenty of successful businesses to prove me wrong...there's more than one way to screw up a business...

    So please excuse me when I get up on my soap box...it's what I get paid to do...and I apologize if I come off abrasive when it happens...I'm just passionate about what I do..
  • 3monkeyshydrodip3monkeyshydrodip Posts: 829Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    Sorry @K2Concepts Jim didn't mean anything by my eariler post just misunderstood the tread from not reading everything late at night. 
    On another note, I have been doing this crazy dip thing for close to three years now with little to no profit. Every job that we do covers expenses and goes back to improving equipment. That equipment is just not tanks, guns, rinse tank, and spray booth but Web and Facebook page not to mention business classes at my local community college. I have no buiness background and find that to be the hardest part. Reading this forum and learning from the great guys/girls on here is valuable for me and I have to say thank you for all you do. I don't see my buiness as a failure just because I'm not rolling in cash as I think most people assume they will. It will come with hard long work. 
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