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General question about placement of heating elements

MasterjqxMasterjqx Posts: 990Member ✭✭✭
edited February 2014 in Do It Yourself
Geting down to the wire on my tank build now its time to install the heating elements, i see some guys install the heating elements on the scavenge side, and i see some people have heating elements on the dipping side, whats your thoughts? where should i put these two heating elements? where are your heating elements?

Pros and Cons of placing the heating elements on either side?

Comments

  • DallenDallen Posts: 1,682Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭
    Hi masterjqx  if you put your heater in the dipping side you get little air bubbles in the water also the extra film will stick to the element creating hot spots that will burn out also you run the risk of hitting it on bigger parts  most of the tanks will have heater elements in the scavenge side for that reason  on that stainless tank your heat will transfer to the dipping part you also can let your pump cycle on every once in a while to heat tank up faster  with that big of tank it will take a while but once it up to temp it should hold good
  • kansashydrokansashydro Posts: 827Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would put one on each side. Once the tank gets up to temp you can shut off the one in the dipping side. The other in the scavenge side will keep it at the right temp after warm up. Also weld a extra bung in the dipping side. Put a element in it and don't hook it up to the juice. Just in case one blows up and you need heat to get the job done. Ask me how I know! Two elements in dipping side. One hooked up one not. One in the scavenge side and job done. You will thank me later.
  • Sac_HydroSac_Hydro Posts: 1,050Member ✭✭✭✭
    I run two on the scavenge side. I chose not to put any on the dip side as I thought about film debris getting on them and just in case I did a really big job they would never hinder me. I put my temp probe high on the dip side close to my dam so the temp would be accurate for surface temp and out of the way. I have no regrets! My heaters are on separate switches in case I want to turn 1 off for any reason. 1 heater will still heat my tank just takes a little longer.
  • MasterjqxMasterjqx Posts: 990Member ✭✭✭
    I would put one on each side. Once the tank gets up to temp you can shut off the one in the dipping side. The other in the scavenge side will keep it at the right temp after warm up. Also weld a extra bung in the dipping side. Put a element in it and don't hook it up to the juice. Just in case one blows up and you need heat to get the job done. Ask me how I know! Two elements in dipping side. One hooked up one not. One in the scavenge side and job done. You will thank me later.
    thanks brent, same thing i was thinking!
  • HardeightHardeight Posts: 584Member ✭✭✭
    2 on the scavenge side.
    I didn't see any benefit of putting them on the dip side, only problems associated with it.
    I have been running the same two elements since I built my tank almost 3 years ago. If one were to ever go out, I wouldn't have to drain the entier tank to replace it.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,793Administrator El Jefe
    Dallen said:
    Hi masterjqx  if you put your heater in the dipping side you get little air bubbles in the water also the extra film will stick to the element creating hot spots that will burn out also you run the risk of hitting it on bigger parts  most of the tanks will have heater elements in the scavenge side for that reason  on that stainless tank your heat will transfer to the dipping part you also can let your pump cycle on every once in a while to heat tank up faster  with that big of tank it will take a while but once it up to temp it should hold good
    And there you go...
  • wicked_dipzwicked_dipz Posts: 564Member ✭✭✭
    When we built my tank I originally put 4 4500 watt elements in it 3 on dip side 1 in dam side. After researching I thought Hell Ill just run the dam side 4 is overkill. Took forever to get up to temp and constantly had to cycle the water. I ended up switching and using just 2 in the dip side Ive had no issues and the tank heats up quick. The bubbles they put off are very small I always turn the heat off when dipping and cycle the water first anyway so not a problem there. If you live where it gets cold Id put them in the dip side but thats just me
  • HardeightHardeight Posts: 584Member ✭✭✭
    The heat is only able to transfer to the water at a certain rate. Physics is a **badword** to try and get around.

    As long as you have a pump running constantly while you are heating, I doubt you would ever put enough power in your scavenge tank to outrun the rate at which the pump can circulate the warm water to the cooler dip side. Heat loss through the plumbing will be negligible. So where they are will have little to no change on how fast the tank heats in the long run. It's more about how much juice you are putting in the water.

    But this gets into more of how you have your tank designed as a whole, rather than just where you put your elements.

    The way I built my tank, it doesn't heat without the pump on. If this isn't what you are after, it will probably be essential to put them on the dip side.

  • MasterjqxMasterjqx Posts: 990Member ✭✭✭
    thanks for all ur input guys, here is another challenge i am facing, neither home depot or lowes carry adopt flanges for the heating elements, anyone know where i can pick some up ?
  • CARBONCONCEPTSCARBONCONCEPTS Posts: 83Member ✭✭
    edited February 2014

    I FIND THAT HARD TO BELIEVE, ITS JUST A SIMPLE FLANGE WITH FOUR BOLT HOLES, AND A SQUARE GASKET, LOCATED RIGHT NEXT TO THE HEATING ELEMENTS IN EVERY STORE IVE LOOKED. IF YOUR IN THE MIDWEST I KNOW FLEET FARM AND MENARDS HAVE THEM.

  • HardeightHardeight Posts: 584Member ✭✭✭
    Lowes and HD don't always stock stainless fittings.
    It's standard NPT, I can't remember the size but I think it's one inch. I'll check.
    If a local plumbing supply house doesn't have them you could probably get some from a web source like Mcmaster Carr.
  • swdippedswdipped Posts: 3Member
    I got my fittings from here http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=36_38, quick service and pretty good prices.
  • Sac_HydroSac_Hydro Posts: 1,050Member ✭✭✭✭
    Most of the metal yards that deal in stainless carry them..
  • BIGGAME510BIGGAME510 Posts: 295Member ✭✭
    Id put them on the filter side out of the way. run a circ pump the water will evenly heat. has anyone ever used a tankless hot water heater?
  • Five-oh HydroFive-oh Hydro Posts: 31Member
    What's the disadvantage of using a hot water heater?. I can find one for cheap compared to fitting my tank with heating element, flange, pid controller and etc.
  • MachinesUnlimitedMachinesUnlimited Posts: 196Member ✭✭
    You would always have to change out your water to keep it warm. The heating elements top the heat off during usage to keep it warm.
  • LAKES_HYDROPRINTLAKES_HYDROPRINT Posts: 245Member ✭✭

    What's the disadvantage of using a hot water heater?. I can find one for cheap compared to fitting my tank with heating element, flange, pid controller and etc.

    Hot water tanks are made to heat and store water. Tankless heaters heat on demand, Also pretty exspensive. I did some price comparison when i did my tank setup, and went with the 4500w. elements. lot cheaper.
  • projectsignsprojectsigns Posts: 23Member
    Hi Guys anybody know where I can find a wireing diagram for control box
    (elements , thermostat, pump)

    thanks
  • projectsignsprojectsigns Posts: 23Member
    don't worry I looks to me that I am just lazy found it right here on the forum

    thanks
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,793Administrator El Jefe

    Id put them on the filter side out of the way. run a circ pump the water will evenly heat. has anyone ever used a tankless hot water heater?

    I have a gas fired one for my house for the last 10 years and am also installing a electric one at the shop. Water is cheap for us and we can get up and running in the dead of winter within 20 minutes. You can get a simple Rheem for $179 at Home Depot and with a 10% off coupon? It's $162...

    Benefits are no standing hot water...you don't pay for what you do not use like a regular water heater. And because they are not heating standing water they are more efficient. Easy to install and no venting issues like a gas fired...I strongly recommend them to our trainees...
  • Sac_HydroSac_Hydro Posts: 1,050Member ✭✭✭✭

    Id put them on the filter side out of the way. run a circ pump the water will evenly heat. has anyone ever used a tankless hot water heater?

    I have a gas fired one for my house for the last 10 years and am also installing a electric one at the shop. Water is cheap for us and we can get up and running in the dead of winter within 20 minutes. You can get a simple Rheem for $179 at Home Depot and with a 10% off coupon? It's $162...

    Benefits are no standing hot water...you don't pay for what you do not use like a regular water heater. And because they are not heating standing water they are more efficient. Easy to install and no venting issues like a gas fired...I strongly recommend them to our trainees...
    Thats actually a really good price / solution!
    Why is it I can never find a 10% off coupon for Home Depot??
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,793Administrator El Jefe
    Still not a bad price though...lol...
  • jtagliajtaglia Posts: 2,273Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sac_Hydro said:

    Id put them on the filter side out of the way. run a circ pump the water will evenly heat. has anyone ever used a tankless hot water heater?

    I have a gas fired one for my house for the last 10 years and am also installing a electric one at the shop. Water is cheap for us and we can get up and running in the dead of winter within 20 minutes. You can get a simple Rheem for $179 at Home Depot and with a 10% off coupon? It's $162...

    Benefits are no standing hot water...you don't pay for what you do not use like a regular water heater. And because they are not heating standing water they are more efficient. Easy to install and no venting issues like a gas fired...I strongly recommend them to our trainees...
    Thats actually a really good price / solution!
    Why is it I can never find a 10% off coupon for Home Depot??
    Home Depot & Loew's gives active military, or any military with your VA card, or even your DD 214 a 10% discount on any purchase. You don't have to be active. I served in the late 60's & get my discount every time I buy there.
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