Soak time and water temp
Wyvern
Posts: 158Member ✭✭✭
Hi
OK...been all over the forum and web and got some conflicting info: The "standard" seems to be 90 degrees 60 seconds. There is a video I saw online (may be here for all I know) of someone laying in film in cold water and just letting it soak for a good long time till its "saturated" and all works fine. I saw a post on a "what went wrong?" thread that said soaking too long can break up the pattern. Seems to me that (as stated in that cold water video) you cant "oversaturate" the film as it will only suck up so much water and stop and at that point it will just kinda sit there. The higher the temp the quicker it saturates. Now..the reason I am asking is ive got this new film that lays down like I put a piece of plastic on the water and after 60seconds at 90 degrees it only just starts to "wrinkle up" like most other films I have used but it still is "plasticy" and if you activate it it looks grainy. Add more to glass it out and it melts right off the part and Im not getting good results with it. So...the school of though seems to be either crank the heat and/or soak it longer. My thinking is that if this is the case then I should be able to lay any film into the water at any given temp and simply wait till it finally soaks up enough water to work. I know Jim did a video on reading film and soak time and such but if film only soaks up "X" amount of water and will sit there waiting for activator then I should not worry about any max soak time. If I can do that "let it sit" method I am thinking I am going to try laying this film on the water and get a beer and see what happens. That being said you would think that film manufacturers would put on the shipping tubes recommended temps and soak times for their products rather than having to waste time and film finding the "sweet spot".
OK...been all over the forum and web and got some conflicting info: The "standard" seems to be 90 degrees 60 seconds. There is a video I saw online (may be here for all I know) of someone laying in film in cold water and just letting it soak for a good long time till its "saturated" and all works fine. I saw a post on a "what went wrong?" thread that said soaking too long can break up the pattern. Seems to me that (as stated in that cold water video) you cant "oversaturate" the film as it will only suck up so much water and stop and at that point it will just kinda sit there. The higher the temp the quicker it saturates. Now..the reason I am asking is ive got this new film that lays down like I put a piece of plastic on the water and after 60seconds at 90 degrees it only just starts to "wrinkle up" like most other films I have used but it still is "plasticy" and if you activate it it looks grainy. Add more to glass it out and it melts right off the part and Im not getting good results with it. So...the school of though seems to be either crank the heat and/or soak it longer. My thinking is that if this is the case then I should be able to lay any film into the water at any given temp and simply wait till it finally soaks up enough water to work. I know Jim did a video on reading film and soak time and such but if film only soaks up "X" amount of water and will sit there waiting for activator then I should not worry about any max soak time. If I can do that "let it sit" method I am thinking I am going to try laying this film on the water and get a beer and see what happens. That being said you would think that film manufacturers would put on the shipping tubes recommended temps and soak times for their products rather than having to waste time and film finding the "sweet spot".
Comments
If the film is too hydrated, it is too soft/ non-cohesive to drag the ink/film to the part being dipped. It will rip and tear before it gets to the part. Also, if the film is too soft, the water can get to the ink side and keep the ink from adhering to the object. Ink won't adhere to a wet object, including not dry paint.... Hence complaints about the ink washing off...
Also, when the film is too hydrated, the colors appear washed out because the film is on the edge of being non-cohesive and won't keep the ink "tight". That's one of the reasons we use tape dams, to keep the ink aligned and tight as much as possible, because when the activator dissolves the fixative applied over the ink there is nothing to keep the hydrated film from drifting away.
@Tsunami instinctively knows this, that is why he invented the Constrictor, to push the ink to the part rather than letting the soft film drag itself to the part.
We don't need to reinvent the wheel, The time and temp parameters are a proven quality outcome system. Cold water and variable hydration time is for the part time bathtub dipper.
I've seen the crossbow stock pictures you've posted on this forum and you have got the really difficult jobs dialed-in, please don't experiment, the system works great for you.
So is there a "pain in the butt newbie badge"?? Im working towards earning it
Production lines with automated line equipment like the thicker fixative because there is less drift of the pattern while it is hydrating, (loose or no dams) and the airflow (fan) that pushes the film along the top of the water won't tear the film as easily. Also, the longer dwell time after activation is helpful with slow dipping mechanisms.
Another problem with thick fixatives is that when humidity infiltrates the PVA film, the edges will curl more than usual because of the different expansion rates of the two different layers.
Thanks!!
Just shoot a video of what you are doing and we can narrow it down...all this "What if" is only confusing your issue...and me as well...lol...
Thanks and sorry to be so confusing....unfortunately I am known for that