black pipe cause fisheyes?

IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭
Just wondering if there is anything about using black pipe for your compressor that can cause fish eyes, like maybe something they have in the pipe when you buy it?

Had a couple speed shapes that I wanted to clear coat which looked great after the dip (which was a week ago) today, put some clear coat on them and immediately it was filled with fish eyes. Pipe is all new and certainly never caused no issues with paint, and I also did some light switch plates with a matte clear and it turned out great. Not sure what's causing this issue now
«1

Comments

  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,340Administrator El Jefe
    Manufacturers of black pipe use cutting oil when they cut the threads on the pipe...many coat the pipe to keep it from rusting when it sits on the shelves or in inventory...or it may be from the way you piped it from the compressor and you may have created a oil trap just from not knowing better? Lastly it could be from the compressor itself...lots of causes for fish eye...
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭
    Okay, so lets try to eliminate some things. I've got 3 "drops" in the piping with valves at each drop to release moisture, etc. (hopefully that would eliminate the oit trap as well?? ) If it's from an oil coating on the piping, how would I eliminate that? Would I have to tear it all apart again and clean out the pipes? Also, the compressor is brand new and an oil less one. (not sure of that matters) I also have filters in line before it gets to the booth and then another water separator filter right before the gun
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,340Administrator El Jefe
    Oil is a coating and will not just come off with use...and if it does? It may be sporadic...I've seen guys run denatured alcohol down the pipe to clean them out. As for your filters? Make sure they are dessicant so they remove moisture as well...if you compressor is running more than 20 minutes at a time it may be producing steam, which could cause fisheyes also...or it could be contamination from the item itself...like we said...lots of reasons for fisheyes...
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭
    okay, well at least narrows it down a tiny bit. Compressor never runs any longer then a couple minutes, 5 at most but that's pushing it. You've also helped me figure out that if there is an oil coating, sounds like I shouldn't need to worry about that if I read your second reply right. Yup, running desiccant filters as was recommended here. Now to narrow this down more and find the issue
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Did you wipe the parts down w anything before the clear? Or stored/placed near anything in the shop that could contaminate?

    I have all black pipe airlines. No issues so far. But yours could be different. Take a cotton swab or clean rag and wipe inside the black pipe right before your filters. Smear that on a clean speed shape and test it.
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2015
    @MidOhioHydrographics - nope, didn't wipe parts down before clear, just blew them off with air. If there IS the possibility the part got contaminated while sitting, is it okay to wipe them down? With alcohol/distilled water mixture?
  • onehitwonderonehitwonder Posts: 2,740Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yep - @MidOhioHydrographics is correct. Use a gentle wipe of that or prep all. After that long a sit time, there is a good chanc contaminants just settled on the parts. When in doubt, if you have fisheye so in the future, degrease some meal with a tone, and hit it with the clear you are spraying. If there are no fisheyes, you know it's contamination on the parts. If there are fisheyes, you know it's in the system somewhere.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,400Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    We use isopropl alcohol 50/50 to wipe everything. Its clean, cheap and dries fast. Search for the thread "causes of fisheyes" and start looking around the shop. Contaminates settle over time, sometimes from far away, sometimes from your deodorant. Oil in black pipe typically doesn't cause fisheyes, but who knows what the mfg changed too. The cotton swab trick on a speed shape and write a number. If you see the number in fisheyes after you clear... You found the problem.
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭
    Was reading some the of info in a post from Tsunami where everyone is talking about fish eyes, solvent pop, etc. Thought maybe I'd post a pic here of my items to make sure what my problem is..... Is this fish eyes, solvent pop or?? Thanks guys!


  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,340Administrator El Jefe
    That's fish eye...
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Good pics. Always good to positively identify a problem before trying to fix something. Yep, fisheye
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭
    okay thanks. Plus it also tells me that I was calling it right when I said fish eyes... Now to hunt down the culprit ;)
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭
    Forgot to ask but once I get the problem figured out, the two parts I pictured above, is that fixable or do I have to redo those from scratch? If fixable, how would I do that? Thanks again!
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,340Administrator El Jefe
    Usually you have to redo them from scratch...fish eye is a contaminant...so until you get rid of the contaminant? It will keep coming back...
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭

    Usually you have to redo them from scratch...fish eye is a contaminant...so until you get rid of the contaminant? It will keep coming back...

    Gotcha, thanks.
  • TsunamiTsunami Posts: 4,952Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fish eyes from hell. You've got it bad. Start with an oil coalescent filter. Once that is installed use the distilled and iso mix. I think you will find your problem gone. The exhaust of my old compressor was causing my fish eyes. I changed the motor and ran new pipe (Black) And have not seen a fish-eye in a long time. Yeah Me. If it does not solve it, test like Trevor says. And find out what is contaminating your pieces. Good luck.
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2015
    I did a lot of stuff today, mainly cleaning my gun and other things. Just had a feeling that the contamination may have been a direct result of something I did, not my lines. After, I clear coated a speed shape that hadn't had anything done to it yet. This speed shape only has one coat on it, just so I could see how the fish eyes were...



    Now, this has me a bit nervous because either

    A - contamination was my fault and I'm close to fixing it

    OR

    The contamination is an issue because of the sealant I used when I built my tank. However, the people from the company that makes the sealant I used, assured me that it contains absolutely no silicone
    Post edited by IceMaster on
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Now start eliminating variables. Get a brand new airline and filter and plug directly into your compressor. If it is still there, you can eliminate all your lines. If not, you know it lies between the compressor and gun. Document everything you did, and everything you changed. Narrow it down systematically.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,400Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @IceMaster Its not necessarily silicone, its silicates. Those two are USUALLY found together... but not always. Be VERY careful in your trouble shooting, and isolate ONE thing at a time. Usually these issues are tricky, they show up and go away sometimes without warning. And dont assume that when you do a test and you have less fisheyes you are close to finding it... sometimes you just have less.
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2015
    @WileECoyote - if something contains crystalline silica, is that a bad thing? Does that fall under the category of "silicates" that you refer too? Judging by the name, I'm going to assume it does, correct?
    Post edited by IceMaster on
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,400Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Silica is typically in reference to sand. Chemical names can get weird. So ruling something out based just on the ingredients names may cause some issues. Best thing to do is test EVERYTHING. Dab a little on a q-tip and wipe it on a speed shape. Write on the back what it is, and spray some clear over it. When you are starting out, you can test 10 different things at once on a speed shape just to narrow it down, and save some time and money. But because most people do this in their garages, they tend to have alot of things that cause problems laying around.
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭
    okay, thanks for the reply!
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭
    Although I will be going through the process of narrowing down what caused the fish eyes, I just wanted to ask. If it WAS a possibility that the sealant I used in my tank contains silicates, would that not cause fish eyes all the time, whether using gloss clear or matte? I'm just asking because I did a dozen light switch plates a couple weeks ago, cleared them with matte and they all turned out great, not one fish eye or anything.


  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,254Member, Moderator El Moderator
    IceMaster said:

    Although I will be going through the process of narrowing down what caused the fish eyes, I just wanted to ask. If it WAS a possibility that the sealant I used in my tank contains silicates, would that not cause fish eyes all the time, whether using gloss clear or matte? I'm just asking because I did a dozen light switch plates a couple weeks ago, cleared them with matte and they all turned out great, not one fish eye or anything.


    Matte clear often hides fish eyes or causes them to not be as noticeable.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,400Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @NotSoFast is right, matte hides alot. But that is the horrible part about fisheyes... One day they are there, the next they are gone, then back again...
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,340Administrator El Jefe
    @studebaker should create a fish eye film so you guys are covered...
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭
    and that's why I like to ask questions because I would have never guessed that. Would have thought you'd get fish eyes whether you were doing matte or gloss....
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,400Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @IceMaster The fisheyes would still be there, but they are less noticeable on matte. Gloss makes all the imperfections more noticeable. Gives you a flat reflective plane that distorts the light anywhere there is a flaw. Matte doesn't reflect as much light, so its not so noticeable.
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭
    good info for knowledge sake here that's for sure.
    So question, more and more I'm leaning towards the sealant I used when I built my tank, especially after talking to a company rep on the phone regarding their sealant. Anyway, so if that's the case, I know I have to completely remove any traces of the old sealant before I can proceed. Once I remove the sealant, what would be the best to use, chemical wise, to make sure the areas where the sealant was, is cleaned really good? Also, is it just the tank I need to be concerned with or is everything in the room with the tank contaminated now too?

    Just out of curiosity, if I was to drain the tank and let it sit for 3 or 4 weeks instead of removing the sealant, would that fix the issue as well by letting it cure more?
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,340Administrator El Jefe
    Ok first...has it happened again or all the time?
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.