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Air compressor line size?

TylerByers18TylerByers18 Posts: 877Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
going to be venturing into making my lines for my air system, was reading aluminum is good for no corrosion and other things, I have a 150 psi craftsman compressor at the moment, not sure the size the lines around my garage should be. going to do the zig zag pipe to help with dissipating the heat and such. I plan on going to a 80 gal soon(maybe tax return time) , not sure the difference on single stage and dual, but will hopefully be that eventually. I know the size of the pipe can affect air flow and pressure. Any help would be great!

Comments

  • TsunamiTsunami Posts: 4,951Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    Two stage is needed for an 80 gallon compressor for my shop. As far a main lines I would use copper if you are going to be there for a while. The larger the line the added storage space you will have created. Lots of couplers and drains will help. I used the Maxline after the zig zag . Expensive but really fast and easy. No problems at all.
  • TylerByers18TylerByers18 Posts: 877Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    Thanks @Tsunami any idea line size?
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,479Administrator El Jefe
    edited August 2015
    3/4" ID (7/8" OD for copper) is what I would run...we have the whole shop run in that...a professional body shop would be using 1 1/4" ID...
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,479Administrator El Jefe
    @TylerByers18 And besides that? Don't you have the air piping size and diagram in the back of your training manual?
  • TylerByers18TylerByers18 Posts: 877Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    I will  have to look  when I get home but I don't think so @K2Concepts ;
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,479Administrator El Jefe
    Pretty sure you do...it's been in the manual for the last 2 years...
  • TylerByers18TylerByers18 Posts: 877Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    Well haven't looked  I the back in a while haha
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,479Administrator El Jefe
    Sigh...
  • TylerByers18TylerByers18 Posts: 877Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    Another useless trainee  :s
  • TsunamiTsunami Posts: 4,951Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cut it out JIm, I took your class in Feb 14. You didn't even have manuals. Rapid Air makes these also. They come in a couple sizes for different needs. If copper is not in the budget or this is just temporary then by all means use Black pipe. You need pitcock drains to help with the little rust that you will get. But not a big deal.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 8,707Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Copper or the quick connect aluminum systems are best. PEX would even work, just not PVC. I have 3/4" Black pipe throughout my shop and it works fine, is fairly easy to install (you can buy about any length to avoid needing to cut threads), cheap, and readily available. Yes they rust, but if you keep the water drained it will be minimal. Use a decent filter before your wall regulator and it will catch any crud.

    All that being said? I wish I had copper or the aluminum system. Once I get a larger, more permanent building I will be installing the rapid air, max air, whatever aluminum quick connect system throughout.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,479Administrator El Jefe
    edited August 2015
    Tsunami said:

    Cut it out JIm, I took your class in Feb 14. You didn't even have manuals. Rapid Air makes these also. They come in a couple sizes for different needs. If copper is not in the budget or this is just temporary then by all means use Black pipe. You need pitcock drains to help with the little rust that you will get. But not a big deal.

    Feb 14th ahh 1 1/2 years ago?...ok flame me for 6 months...when I get old like you and can't remember if my zipper is up? I hope I have the strength to pull the trigger...
  • TylerByers18TylerByers18 Posts: 877Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    Well Jim I guess I get my money back because nothing in there about hose size and such
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,479Administrator El Jefe
    Not going to happen BUT I will send you a updated training manual...
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,479Administrator El Jefe
  • TylerByers18TylerByers18 Posts: 877Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    Yup deifinetly nothing in my book about that lol, just giving ya crap jim, thanks haha
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,479Administrator El Jefe
    I'll print one up and mail it to you...
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 5,673Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @TylerByers18 running the largest size pipe you care to pay for adds extra storage to your system. That will pay off every day you run your compressor. That being said, there is no point in putting 3"in the ceiling. Copper is the best to use. It dissipates heat energy the fastest (aluminum included). It seals the best of all of the materials (aluminum flexes and does lose a little bit) and copper lasts the longest. Pay attention to the diagram above, all the drops go vertical first, then turn 180° and go down the wall. Put drain legs at your drops. Get yourself some unions and place them at the ends of areas likely to change, so you can easily replace/modify sections. 1/2" copper pipe can be bent with a conduit bender (although it decreases the crossection just a bit) which saves money on elbows, decreases joints (leaks) and makes a standard half loop for your drops which makes it look professional. The above diagram is a straight line system. A loop in your ceiling is optimal for eliminating pressure loss. Valves are great for cutting off areas to be worked on, while not interrupting the shop work (if you are that big). Other than that... Go for it!
  • TylerByers18TylerByers18 Posts: 877Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the input guys, this is my home which I hope to not be living in the next 2 years or so, but wondering if I got the copper route if I will just take it off the wall and take it to where ever I go next, or just do the aluminum one and leave it at the house. I'm not sure how much copper is to buy(haven't stopped by home depot, not even sure if they sell this stuff). Also I have seen some of the setups on google image search and see all the angle elbows instead of bending it and it looks like crap haha, jims is bent and angled and it looks nice so I'm hoping to go that route, also have to learn how to weld the copper if I go that route. Thanks @WileECoyote and others!
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,479Administrator El Jefe
    Copper is cheap...use Type M and it's about $17.00 per 10'...I welded all my elbows and since you can do that? Why not? Also you can just cut it back down into manageable sections when you move...so just take it with you and reweld it at your new place...
  • BillBill Posts: 2Member
    Agree on the copper. I have that ran in my system and once you get the soldering down its a breeze and will last forever. Not worth doing everything twice, just do it right the first time!
  • aceace Posts: 33Member
    I got the 3/4" blue stripe copper pipe, it's thicker. 22$ per 10'. I'm glad I did this because it's been 100 to 115 degrees her in Southern California. 
  • dippinchitdippinchit Posts: 120Member ✭✭
    I have been in the tire business a really long rime.
    Can someone tell me why PVC PIPE is a problem?
    I have used PVC for years.
    150PSI is nothing for PVC. It holds 4000 PSI.
    For a cooling loop I would use copper but I have never used one because I use a 2 tank system.



  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,141Member, Moderator El Moderator
    Maybe because pvc can become brittle over time? Plus, pvc doesn't dissipate heat as well as copper or black iron pipe.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 8,707Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited December 2016
    It's because it fails catastrophically if it breaks. At 150psi if someone bumped it too hard it would send sharp shards of plastic shrapnel flying. It's actually against code where I am. Water at working pressure is different because it's non-compressive. PEX is a better option. It doesn't explode and splinter when damaged like PVC does. @dippinchit
  • DeepSouthDippinDeepSouthDippin Posts: 277Member ✭✭✭
    I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong on PVC pipe for air lines. Now that I said that I will say the shop that I work in is 40 years old. We have 120 gal 3 phase air compressor and 3/4 in PVC lines run into the shop. They are braced to the wall poorly and get pulled on all the time when we string out the air hoses. It has been there since the ship was built. We have had a few leaks to fix over the years but nothing like equipment damage or anything from splinters of it going through the system. 
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,479Administrator El Jefe
    Well first off? It is totally against OSHA rules and regulations...This is just a small excerpt from the OSHA bulletin dated 1988...and I am sure they have gotten more restrictive since then:

    " the Plastic Pipe Institute, in its Recommendation B dated January 19, 1972, recommends against the use of thermoplastic pipe to transport compressed air or other compressed gases in exposed plant piping. (See attachment.)

    Furthermore, sections 842.32, 842.43 and 849.52(b) of the American National Standards Institute/American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ANSI/ASME) B31.8-1986, Gas Transmission and Distribution Piping Systems Standard, limit the operating pressure of plastic piping distribution systems to 100 pounds per inch (psi) and prohibit the installation of such systems above ground except where ". . . the above ground portion of the plastic service line is completely enclosed in a conduit or casing of sufficient strength to provide protection from external damage and deterioration." (Excerpts attached.)

    Additional consensus standards applicable to PVC compressed gas systems include American Society for Testing Materials (ASTM) D1785-86, Standard Specification for Polyvinyl Chloride Plastic Pipe, Schedules 40, 80, and 120, and ASTM D2513-86a, Standard Specification for Thermoplastic Gas Pressure Piping Systems."

    Now if you guys want to play Russian Roulette? You go right ahead...personally, I know guys that do but you won't catch me doing anything like that...especially when the MANUFACTURER of the product tells you NOT to do it...now you are just asking to get burned...

    Add to that? You will get MUCH more water in your system because the PVC cannot dissipate the heat like copper or another form of conductive material.

    Honestly? I think you are foolish to take that chance...
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