Experimenting with hydrographics over powder coating — K2Forums.com

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Experimenting with hydrographics over powder coating

TopCoatsTopCoats Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
I was tinkering with my new PC oven yesterday and decided to see if I could dip a part that had been coated and baked. This is just part of a bracket that was in with my scrap metal box and I didn't think of dipping it until after I put the powder on so I know the film doesn't show up well but I thought it was pretty cool that I could coat, bake, dip, clear coat and bake again. I'm sure I'm not breaking new ground, I am just a novice in the hydrographics world and completely inexperienced with powder but I still impressed myself

Comments

  • MasterjqxMasterjqx Posts: 990Member ✭✭✭
    yeah! you can defiantly dip to power coat! its a nice option to give your customers! nice work!
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,476Administrator El Jefe
    Yes...good stuff for trying it all on your own...we did that 7 years ago without any help just like you did...nice job my friend...
  • TopCoatsTopCoats Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks! I definitely have A LOT to learn with powder, I wasn't planning on offering it so soon but I came across a deal I couldn't pass up over the weekend, I'm going to start looking for somewhere to train ASAP.
  • GSPGSP Posts: 257Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Colombia coatings is a great program, its like 600$ for the 3 day course but you can learn on your own and go to videos and forums when your stumped, If you buy a gun or powder from columbia coatings those guys will help you work through any issues you have, powder isn't so much in technique but more about a good gun 1000$ plus and learning how to manipulate the flow of the powder in your oven. You need to find the sweet spot where it flows and then time the cure once you hit part metal temperature. Those are the keys for consistancy and as far as dipping to powder, you can but the adhesion isn't very strong, put a light scuff on the powder before dipping and if you going to powder over the dip be careful, you have to really under cure the part because the ink from the dip will burn and smoke, so keep it low and quick for the final coat. I usually powder the part, that layer protects and seals it, then I'll dip and I won't clear with powder, I clear with urethane or cerakote. the powder layer is protecting the part, the clear just protects the dip. That way you preserve the dip and don't smoke/haze your top clear layer. I don't like handing hazy or dull parts to a customer expecting to be blinded by the shine. Im still perfecting my dip skills with the help of jim's videos but there really isn't anyone in the powder industry that show's their cards. It's not that hard to apply powder it's prep and equipment. If you need advice let me know I've had the powder thing figured out for a few years. It's not that hard If you know how to prep and paint. Thats usually the hard part to teach people but when you know that already the powder comes easy. If your using the same booth just make sure you switch your paint arrestors out for paper micron filters and you vacuum the s..t out of your booth or you'll hate life the next time you go to paint, Powder is so fine it gets every where and is charged so it will stick in the seems and corners of your booth and just fall down whenever as it looses its charge.
  • TopCoatsTopCoats Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
    GSP said:

    Colombia coatings is a great program, its like 600$ for the 3 day course but you can learn on your own and go to videos and forums when your stumped, If you buy a gun or powder from columbia coatings those guys will help you work through any issues you have, powder isn't so much in technique but more about a good gun 1000$ plus and learning how to manipulate the flow of the powder in your oven. You need to find the sweet spot where it flows and then time the cure once you hit part metal temperature. Those are the keys for consistancy and as far as dipping to powder, you can but the adhesion isn't very strong, put a light scuff on the powder before dipping and if you going to powder over the dip be careful, you have to really under cure the part because the ink from the dip will burn and smoke, so keep it low and quick for the final coat. I usually powder the part, that layer protects and seals it, then I'll dip and I won't clear with powder, I clear with urethane or cerakote. the powder layer is protecting the part, the clear just protects the dip. That way you preserve the dip and don't smoke/haze your top clear layer. I don't like handing hazy or dull parts to a customer expecting to be blinded by the shine. Im still perfecting my dip skills with the help of jim's videos but there really isn't anyone in the powder industry that show's their cards. It's not that hard to apply powder it's prep and equipment. If you need advice let me know I've had the powder thing figured out for a few years. It's not that hard If you know how to prep and paint. Thats usually the hard part to teach people but when you know that already the powder comes easy. If your using the same booth just make sure you switch your paint arrestors out for paper micron filters and you vacuum the s..t out of your booth or you'll hate life the next time you go to paint, Powder is so fine it gets every where and is charged so it will stick in the seems and corners of your booth and just fall down whenever as it looses its charge.

    Thanks a lot for the advice! I'll definitely be hitting you up for some more since you're offering!
  • UndercoverCoatingsUndercoverCoatings Posts: 558Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    Good read GSP
  • GSPGSP Posts: 257Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks guys, happy to help
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,476Administrator El Jefe

    Good read GSP

    +1...thank you for that info...good stuff...
  • JellyBeanJellyBean Posts: 32Member
    I only like to use powder coat, hate messing with paint. The biggest downside is when there's mistakes. You either need to be able to touch it up, or in the mood to be sand blasting again and starting over.
    But GSP had some good advice as well! :-bd
    I always under cure my base. Dip. Then fully cure it with clear powder. The activator can make the base powder tacky too so be careful of that. Im working on a bunch of stuff now i'll try to snap and post pics. But you can burn the pattern, and so cooking it at a lower temp for a longer time can adjust for this (I don't go more than 335 degrees). Some temperamental stuff.... My husband I have experimented a lot with it for 3 years now, and a lot of trial and error but have it down pretty well now.

    Speaking of powdercoating.... I have a Nordson gun and need a new hopper.... Anyone know where I can get one for a reasonable price... or can make me one?
  • GSPGSP Posts: 257Member ✭✭✭
    JellyBean said:

    I only like to use powder coat, hate messing with paint. The biggest downside is when there's mistakes. You either need to be able to touch it up, or in the mood to be sand blasting again and starting over.
    But GSP had some good advice as well! :-bd
    I always under cure my base. Dip. Then fully cure it with clear powder. The activator can make the base powder tacky too so be careful of that. Im working on a bunch of stuff now i'll try to snap and post pics. But you can burn the pattern, and so cooking it at a lower temp for a longer time can adjust for this (I don't go more than 335 degrees). Some temperamental stuff.... My husband I have experimented a lot with it for 3 years now, and a lot of trial and error but have it down pretty well now.

    Speaking of powdercoating.... I have a Nordson gun and need a new hopper.... Anyone know where I can get one for a reasonable price... or can make me one?

    columbiacoatings.com is where I buy from, best people in the powder industry in my opinion. But if you want to get creative, go on you tube there's videos on how to make a fluidizing hopper out of pvc, piece of filter membrane and a couple fittings.
  • JellyBeanJellyBean Posts: 32Member
    Thanks GSP, I'll check them out for sure!
  • gmjericgmjeric Posts: 85Member
    do you go as far **badword** full flow out and then pull the part from the oven just like masking
  • GSPGSP Posts: 257Member ✭✭✭
    gmjeric said:

    do you go as far **badword** full flow out and then pull the part from the oven just like masking

    if your masking with 250 degree film then yeah you let it flow out then pull the masking off, but there are a few masking films that can take 450 degrees, so you really don't need to do that anymore. and in this case your just trying to cure the powder as low as possible so you don't smoke the ink from the film you transferred. Flow out and cure both speed up or slow down with temperature. They never intended hydrographic film to be baked, but the quality of the inks used allow for it sometimes. Your just trying to get the powder to cure without deteriorating the film in the process.
  • gmjericgmjeric Posts: 85Member
    ok so all my powders are listed as 400 degree 10 min powder.... at what temp should we pull it so that we are still safe...... will the clear that is flowing out protect the film any
  • GSPGSP Posts: 257Member ✭✭✭
    what type powder are you using, at this point i pretty much have played with the worst and the best and know the high's and low's. if it says 400 at 10 min sounds like east wood's powder. you can cure it at 300 for say 15-20 minutes the flow out occurs after 5 or so minutes at about 250 degrees part temp. hit the part with your laser thermometer and when it flows out raise it up to 300-325 for say 10 minutes and you should have a good cure.I have a chart on this from when i got certified, if i can dig it out i'll post it when i get home. just make sure the part temp is where its supposed to be for the correct duration so you get a nice hard clear. it's simple really less temp equals more time
  • DeadSureDeadSure Posts: 61Member ✭✭
    GSP is right on the money. Less temp means more time. The most important factor to achieve is crosslink and cure. Most NIC's powders will say 400 for 10 minutes PMT. This is a production value and not a minimum value. Many of the super durable powders only require 320 for cross link and cure to occur. If you can contact the manufacture and get the minimum values, then you'll know for sure. If not, you can always do the MEK test on a test piece.
  • gmjericgmjeric Posts: 85Member
    Ok sounds great... NIC powders here....  If you have a chart thats great or I can just give them a shout
  • GSPGSP Posts: 257Member ✭✭✭
    thats all i use is prismatic,  you can get the cure data off their website.  you can cure that powder low and slow with great results, go 250 degrees part temp til you get flow out then come up to 325 to cure for say 15 minute part temp
  • bclaussenbclaussen Posts: 21Member
    GSP what would you recommend if a person was going to powder base, dip, then powder clear wheels?
    Thanks for the info... this forum is legit.

  • GSPGSP Posts: 257Member ✭✭✭
    bclaussen said:

    GSP what would you recommend if a person was going to powder base, dip, then powder clear wheels?

    Thanks for the info... this forum is legit.

    I would just powder the base as you normally would with a nice protective, relatively thick coat, bake normally, then dip and try to keep temp down when you bake the clear. say 250 til you get flow out and then bring it up to say 325 for about 20 min until it looks cured, remember these temps aren't the oven temp but the part temp. you have to play around, some films are fine at 350 or 375 and some get smoked out, I always try to bake low after I dip to powder, whats a couple extra minutes if it prevents you from starting over and the clear glosses out better when cured slowly anyway
  • allanfpalvesallanfpalves Posts: 20Member
    Guys,
    I'm trying to use powder coating as base but not successfully in all items. Just dull color are working well, is it normal?
  • allanfpalvesallanfpalves Posts: 20Member
    edited October 2014
  • allanfpalvesallanfpalves Posts: 20Member
    Here is my experiment having bright red as base. Usually dull colors are better for adherence and details of the patterns. After dry I found some space without pattern, what could be?

    What do you guys reckon?

  • RBurressRBurress Posts: 1,552Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Your water is too clean..lol. The picture is tough to make out the blemishes from the shine.
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