Has anyone used or heard of KG Gun Kote? — K2Forums.com

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Has anyone used or heard of KG Gun Kote?

MHGMHG Posts: 44Member ✭✭
KG GunKote is a new gun Kote that is out and it has been tested against Cerakote and well I will let you be the judge. This is just one of the 18 test this guy did

Comments

  • HardeightHardeight Posts: 584Member ✭✭✭
    It's not new, I have and do use it occasionally.

    Cerakote is still a superior product from my experience.
  • TsunamiTsunami Posts: 4,952Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    New stuff to look for on the Google. @Hardeight‌ can you elaborate on your findings. Im curious after watching the video. Im guessing durability is not your only category for your conclusion
  • gmjericgmjeric Posts: 85Member
    Non of these coating are a bubble wrap protect all.. cerakote is more flexible, more scratch resistant, etc than the base material. If you were to gouge cerakote etc then you will have caused damage to the substrate. Yes it can be blasted off or dremeled etc but what does that represent in normal usage of a gun?

    cerakote's primary roll is corrosion protection. it is far superior in that regard. It is tested through recognized scientific means such as calibrated salt spray...

    Cerakote is thin enough to be used on all of the internals, pins, rails etc. this gives your gun complete protection from the elements etc.

    End of the day the major manufactures have their choice of any product in the worl to use on their weapons. they have engineering staff that fully vet any material used. there is not another commercially used material gun coat duracoat etc used by any manufacturer much less the premier makers. (barret, colt, sig, lwrc, trijicon, edelbrock, vance hines, warn,etc) it would be in insult to you and your prfession to have somebody suggest that they being a garage hack knows what your job is better than you.. why would somebody follow a youtube hack with a dremel over test measures that are verifiable and repeatable... Same ASTM test none of the other coating manufactures are willing to disclose their results of
  • HardeightHardeight Posts: 584Member ✭✭✭
    Tsunami said:

    New stuff to look for on the Google. @Hardeight‌ can you elaborate on your findings. Im curious after watching the video. Im guessing durability is not your only category for your conclusion

    Durability is a huge factor. What isn't taken into consideration in this type of testing is the mil thickness of the coating. I can paint a part with urethane base coat clear coat and make it appear to be tougher than Cerakote, but what's the millage on the two? When it comes to firearms there are a lot more things to take into consideration.

    Mil build is a big factor. Cerakote has one of the lowest builds I have ever seen in a spray on coating. Very important in firearms.

    Ease of application is another. KG Guncoat is kind of a pain in the **badword** to apply. Cerakote is pretty straightforward as long as your prep work has been taken care of properly.

    Cerakote is also extremely efficient. A little bit of paint goes a long way.

    I also like that I can mix custom colors with Cerakote. My stable of custom mixes is one of my biggest selling processes.

    Keep in mind, it's not perfect. No coating is impervious. Some colors have terrible coverages and are a nightmare to spray because they end up with higher film builds. I stray away from those.
    You can't handle the part till it has been thermally cured, so custom patterns through stencil application is time consuming.
    Their "matte" clear coat has more gloss than some factory automotive paint jobs I have seen.
    Flexibility isn't the best. It is fine with one direction flex, but anything that can see repeated reciprocating flexing, it will quickly crack and flake off. OHW or Duracoat is probably better for those types of substrates.
    It is also a complete hassle to try and dip to, so I don't even bother anymore. It can be done, but will your customers be willing to pay more for your extra strife? Generally not.
    So in that respect, there are other firearm coating out there that are better for dipping IMO and they serve that role better than Cerakote.

    But as a stand alone product, I prefer Cerakote above all else available.

  • BarbaricDesignBarbaricDesign Posts: 519Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 2014
    ^good thread guys, you answered questions I didn't know I had..
    Post edited by BarbaricDesign on
  • HydroDynamicsAKHydroDynamicsAK Posts: 438Member ✭✭✭
    I only use DuraCoat on firearms and have never had a complaint with it from customers or myself. I like the fact that it sprays and lays very well and a very small coating will adhere and do the job you need it to.
  • MHGMHG Posts: 44Member ✭✭
    Hardeight said:

    Tsunami said:

    New stuff to look for on the Google. @Hardeight‌ can you elaborate on your findings. Im curious after watching the video. Im guessing durability is not your only category for your conclusion

    Durability is a huge factor. What isn't taken into consideration in this type of testing is the mil thickness of the coating. I can paint a part with urethane base coat clear coat and make it appear to be tougher than Cerakote, but what's the millage on the two? When it comes to firearms there are a lot more things to take into consideration.

    Mil build is a big factor. Cerakote has one of the lowest builds I have ever seen in a spray on coating. Very important in firearms.

    Ease of application is another. KG Guncoat is kind of a pain in the **badword** to apply. Cerakote is pretty straightforward as long as your prep work has been taken care of properly.

    Cerakote is also extremely efficient. A little bit of paint goes a long way.

    I also like that I can mix custom colors with Cerakote. My stable of custom mixes is one of my biggest selling processes.

    Keep in mind, it's not perfect. No coating is impervious. Some colors have terrible coverages and are a nightmare to spray because they end up with higher film builds. I stray away from those.
    You can't handle the part till it has been thermally cured, so custom patterns through stencil application is time consuming.
    Their "matte" clear coat has more gloss than some factory automotive paint jobs I have seen.
    Flexibility isn't the best. It is fine with one direction flex, but anything that can see repeated reciprocating flexing, it will quickly crack and flake off. OHW or Duracoat is probably better for those types of substrates.
    It is also a complete hassle to try and dip to, so I don't even bother anymore. It can be done, but will your customers be willing to pay more for your extra strife? Generally not.
    So in that respect, there are other firearm coating out there that are better for dipping IMO and they serve that role better than Cerakote.

    But as a stand alone product, I prefer Cerakote above all else available.

    Sorry I haven't got on here to respond to any of this but I just got back from overseas. But just to answer one of your questions on here. From the Gun Kote datasheets on the website the ideal thickness for KG Gun Kote is .0003 to .0004. For Cerakote this ideal thickness is .0005 to .001. I am a Gun Kote user because I don't have to mix hardner in it so what I don't use I pore back in the bottle and I can dip to both the air cure and the heat cure. I know Cerakote you do not have to mix their cure but you do have to mix there heat cure and you can't dip to ether one. At less from what I hear you can't dip to Cerakote at all. I haven't tried to dip to it but it coast way to much to get it to test it. I can get a 4oz bottle of Gun Kote for $11 and if I ask I can get a 2oz for free. And to everyone else that has responded to this thread thank you all for all the good info. I am still new to all of this and I'm still learning. Thank you all.
  • HardeightHardeight Posts: 584Member ✭✭✭
    I don't think it's a terrible product, it is good and their customer service is much better in my experience.
    Cerakote is much more forgiving to spray though and it is tougher according to ASTM testing.
    Preheating the parts and then curing then rubbing them with oil while still warm is just a pain for me doing parts in quantity. If the part isn't warm when spraying it will not look right after curing. It is just kind of a hassle.
    But the product is still nice and thin and pretty durable. Just takes more work to get to the same place.

    Also you can dip to Cerakote, but just like the above I find it an unnecessary amount of trouble to go to for little added benefit.

    In the end every shop will find products they like or endorse and prefer to use in their systems.
  • gumbydammitgumbydammit Posts: 15Member
    Hey guys, sorry to resurrect the old thread, but looking for some input along this line.  I've been using Cerakote for about 6 or 8 months (although I didn't do too much during the winter) and have done mostly simple accessory jobs on firearms.  

    I've done a handful of complete guns as well and a few dips over Cerakote.  A couple came out great and a couple never turned out and I did something different with them.  Fortunately I have some customers who are friends that have been pretty patient with my learning curves (that and they have gotten some pretty nice work for next to nothing).  

    Anyway, I saw KG GunKote at the SHOT show this year and the guy I talked to said it would dip way better than the other popular coatings, so I finally ordered some to try.  

    When you have used KG, have you fully cured it prior to dipping over it?  Cerakote advises to partially cure it prior to dipping and bake the hydro right into the finish.  Again, sometimes that has worked for me and sometimes not.

    When I told the KG guy about my problems dipping Cerakote and having to blast and start over every time I had a crappy dip (plenty of learning curve for me there too unfortunately, but that's another thread), he suggested I cure the KG fully, then dip.  That way if I have a problem with the dip I can clean it off with acetone and dip it again.  

    If it can be wiped off that easily, doesn't that mean the hydro isn't biting into the coating?  If so, won't it be prone to peel?

    Even after a couple dozen Cerakote jobs I'm finding things don't always go as planned.  Some of the colors seem to spray better than others and the finish seems to have different gloss levels between colors even with the same mix ratio.  Is it really that inconsistent or just me?

    All of this has led me to looking into the KG products, but realizing I may just be an idiot, I thought I'd get some input from anyone who has BTDT.  

    BTW - my business is only part time, however I've got a business license, got my FFL and have scrimped to get enough equipment to make it a legit business in a few years when I retire.  Hopefully I make it that long & my wife doesn't throw me out before I get there.  Thanks in advance for any advice to get me pointed in the right direction.

    Blake
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,204Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator

    If it can be wiped off that easily, doesn't that mean the hydro isn't biting into the coating?  If so, won't it be prone to peel?

    got my FFL .

    @gumbydammit (nice name, btw) I would be worried about the same thing. The person you talked to may not be familiar with how the activator needs to penetrate into the base. If you can wipe the base paint w/ acetone safely? I'd be worried. But.... I've never tried. If you're experimenting w/ KG anyway, give it a shot.

    And good job w/ the FFL. It's a fairly simple step that many guys seem to try and skirt around. Some other Cerakote guys should chime in on the inconsistency you're getting. Good luck w/ everything!
  • gumbydammitgumbydammit Posts: 15Member
    Thanks for the input!  I had one gun I did with a digital camp dip that the Cerakote came out great on, but I kept stretching the hydro, so it got blasted several times, so this sounded too good to be true.

    The FFL has been along time coming.  I thought about doing this 25 yrs ago, and then again about 10 years ago, but talked myself out of it.  Feels great to finally be pursuing my dream :)
  • gumbydammitgumbydammit Posts: 15Member
    BTW - this is the one I had to dip several times.  
  • MrGoatMrGoat Posts: 15Member
    I hate to spray KG because its a pain in the **badword** to paint, however for hydro its far superior to cerakote. The trick is to flash harden and NOT do a full cure. I flash at 225 deg for 7.5 mins. Let the part cool. Dip, clear, and then do a 2 hr cure at 225. The result is generally a rock hard finish and the dip does not just scrape off the paint.
  • gumbydammitgumbydammit Posts: 15Member
    Thanks Mr Goat, that makes more sense.  I'll have to give that a try.  Curious, why don't you like spraying it?  I just got some in and did some spraying with it last night.  It seems to be a lot thinner than Cerakote and goes on a lot lighter, but it went pretty smooth (obviously one time doesn't mean much).

    Any other thoughts?
  • MrGoatMrGoat Posts: 15Member
    It's very prone to running. Keep it light and no worries, but if you get a little thick any place and insto runs.
  • MrGoatMrGoat Posts: 15Member
    Also.. DO NOT do the 1hr full temp bake for your final cure. While the results are entertaining they are probably not what your customer is looking for.
  • gumbydammitgumbydammit Posts: 15Member
    Lol, that sounds interesting.  Is there some kind of meltdown if you go the full hour?  I noticed several places it mentions that letting it bake longer can make it harder, but may discolor the product.  That doesn't sound good
  • MrGoatMrGoat Posts: 15Member
    Your final bake should be a 2hr bake at low temp, just like you would do for a polymer part. If you do a full 375 deg bake on a metal part you run the risk of having any pva left on the part bubble off. You end up with a part that looks like it got hit with mustard gas.
  • HardeightHardeight Posts: 584Member ✭✭✭
    MrGoat said:

    Your final bake should be a 2hr bake at low temp, just like you would do for a polymer part. If you do a full 375 deg bake on a metal part you run the risk of having any pva left on the part bubble off. You end up with a part that looks like it got hit with mustard gas.

    If there is any PVA left on the part anyway, you're probably going to have some problems on down the road anyway.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,204Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Yeah I don't use GunKote, but the PVA should be totally rinsed away before top coating with anything.
  • gumbydammitgumbydammit Posts: 15Member
    Thanks for the input guys, I really appreciate the pointers!
  • gardnerdddgardnerddd Posts: 220Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    Is anyone currently using KG as a gun coating? If so, are you having any problems with it durability?
  • MHGMHG Posts: 44Member ✭✭
    I've been using them for almost 4 years and no problems at all.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,204Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    I’ve heard fantastic things about KG, but haven’t used it personally.
  • gardnerdddgardnerddd Posts: 220Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    @MHG what series do you use?
  • preedpreed Posts: 380Member ✭✭✭✭
    I use them all. It's customer preference.
    Chevy Ford or Dodge...
    They are all good as long as it's been prepped right.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,066Administrator El Jefe
    preed said:

    I use them all. It's customer preference.
    Chevy Ford or Dodge...
    They are all good as long as it's been prepped right.

    This...
  • MHGMHG Posts: 44Member ✭✭

    @MHG what series do you use?

    I use the 1200 air cure.
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