So, what am I doing wrong?

DJ_CritterusDJ_Critterus Posts: 16Member
Before I ask what's wrong with my technique, set up, or supplies let me give you a rundown of what I have and what I'm doing.

I bought the Dipape starter kit because it was cheap enough to try and didn't cost a load of $$$. After reading many threads on this forum and watching videos from K2 on YT, I decided to give it a shot....several times.

These parts are the tops to the filters I have sitting on top of my T-bucket engine. Maybe 5" in diameter. I sandblasted the powder coat off that I had on there, cleaned the parts, then shot automotive sandable primer. After the prep work was done, I laid out some film, taped the edges and did the corner-corner fold to slowly lay it in the water which was at 91deg (using a clean plastic tub). I had made dams so that the film couldn't move either. After 80 seconds of soaking in the water, I hit it with the can of activator and waited about 20 seconds for the film to start to expand.

Here's the problem, it bunched up into a line near the center which you will see in the pics, I did a nice smooth dip at 45deg angle, and even back taped the edge. The film looked like it clung to the part and was hanging off the edges and parts of it slid off. You can also see what appears to be bubbling in what did stick. I did not clear this part, yet, either, but it is compatible automotive grade clear (rattle can...same as the base that came in the starter kit).

So, I have a couple of questions (keep in mind this is a hobby and I'm not dropping a few $K on a proper tank just yet).
1) is there something wrong with my dip technique?
2) is there something wrong with my supplies (rattle can activator and film from DipApe)?
3) is there something wrong with my water temp or how long i let the film soak and amount/time for activator (rattle can activator?)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.





«1

Comments

  • DJ_CritterusDJ_Critterus Posts: 16Member
    I meant to say I back taped the edge and I did put the film on the water correct side down.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,821Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Overall, you're under activated (common with aerosols). Was there a base paint applied? Or was it just the primer that you dipped to?
  • ForsiForsi Posts: 285Member ✭✭✭
    You mentioned you sprayed a primer after you sandblasted, but you don't mention painting a base coat paint on the primer, did you do that or did you dip this straight to primer? Where the film has the lines and stuck to itself is likely from not giving the film enough room to expand when you placed it on the water. If there is not enough room and the film expands and sticks to itself it will result in these "lines" if you don't "unstick" the film from itself prior to dipping. The rest of the issues look to be under activated as @MidOhioHydrographics said...
  • DJ_CritterusDJ_Critterus Posts: 16Member
    edited April 8
    So under activating is causing it to slip off, too? I thought that was over activating? Either way, I'll try it again with with more activator. Also, as far as it bunching up, I taped all four sides of the film and laid it down smooth letting the water draw it to the surface. It didn't bunch until after I let go and it had plenty of room to expand.

    MidOhio, I dipped straight to primer/base coat that came with the starter kit. My thoughts are next time, I use primer then a base coat or I powder coat and scuff it up. Powder is easier and faster, anyway.
  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Posts: 1,841Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dont tape all 4 sides. The film didnt slide of it was underactivated and tore before it reached the edges
  • DJ_CritterusDJ_Critterus Posts: 16Member
    I'm glad i found this forum.

    So, should i tape the shorter or longer two of the edges?
  • loochlooch Posts: 1,837Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    The film wont stick direct to powdercoat.  You will need some kind of base.
  • NWHNWH Posts: 68Member ✭✭
    edited April 8
    looch said:

    The film wont stick direct to powdercoat.  You will need some kind of base.

    Oh that is definitely not true been using powder and hydro for a few years now and actually works quite well but there is a technique to it.
    NWH
  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Posts: 1,841Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    @DJ_Critterus intape the 2 long sides and use dams to block off the other 2 sides 
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,846Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @looch it can stick to powder, but not fully cured powder. And unless you know what you are doing, it is not suggested. 
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,821Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Powder is paint, and paint works. Depending on the type of powder, many people have good luck doing it. Someone had even mentioned an "open" powder that could accept the dip once totally cured. I have never ventured into more than reading.
  • DJ_CritterusDJ_Critterus Posts: 16Member
    NWH said:

    looch said:

    The film wont stick direct to powdercoat.  You will need some kind of base.

    Oh that is definitely not true been using powder and hydro for a few years now and actually works quite well but there is a technique to it.
    NWH
    What's the technique? Powder the base, scuff it up, apply hydro graphics, then clear with powder at a lowerr temp just until the medium looks like it's wet and running out?
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,846Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Nope. The base is not fully cured. Scuffing the powder would do very little to help the print adhere. I don't remember is you can powder clear over the top, as it cures at a higher temp than the print can stand. My advice is to leave that process alone till you have a year or so under your belt the right way, then you can start experimenting. @NWH has been at this a LONG time...
  • DJ_CritterusDJ_Critterus Posts: 16Member
    Thanks. I plan to try again this Friday with more activator. Should I dip my part with only primer on it or a primer, then base, and light scuffing?
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,846Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    You do not dip to primer. You dip to an approved base for this process. Scuffing does nothing for adhesion, hydrographics is purely a chemical bond.

    Everyone else reading this with more experience just had their sphincter pucker when I started using absolutes... just hold off on the backlash, I am trying to simplify for a beginner...
  • DJ_CritterusDJ_Critterus Posts: 16Member

    You do not dip to primer. You dip to an approved base for this process. Scuffing does nothing for adhesion, hydrographics is purely a chemical bond.

    Everyone else reading this with more experience just had their sphincter pucker when I started using absolutes... just hold off on the backlash, I am trying to simplify for a beginner...

    No pucker factor and that's why I asked. Now that I have more clarity, maybe I can finally go forth and do good things. I also quit drinking for good, but now only do it for evil, so, maybe learning to do the dipping will occupy my spare time better *lmao*

  • DJ_CritterusDJ_Critterus Posts: 16Member
    NWH said:

    Pucker factor just registered 100. :o :o :o :o
    Ok my suggestion is someone has jump the gun and needs to take a step backwards and regroup. Everyone is in such a hurry to make a great dip but forgets that the dip is just one small part of the process (but a important part).
    The result that you have achieved with that type of kit is what I would expect of someone not understanding the process.

    1) S--t can the kit!!!
    2) S--t Can the kit!!!
    3) Buy some film to practice with like at least 5 to 10 meters.
    4) Buy a quart of activator
    5) A cheap spray gun with a 1.4 tip
    6) Go buy a pint or quart of a urethane base
    7) Practice, Practice,Practice,Practice.
    8) S--t can the kit!!!
    9) If only wanting to do a few parts you will find it cheaper to send it out to someone.

    By now you probably figured out that I don't like the kits they are like building a race car and using Lego's for the frame you get what you pay for. Will the kits work yes but in most ways to make them work properly some one with experience and understanding the process is what it really takes as there are to many variables with the kits along with different films which can be harder to work with.
    NWH

    I have plenty of spray guns since I just painted my 40' Excaliber off shore go-fast boat and they all have the 1.4 tips and several clean (and some unused) cups. It's funny you post this because I've already ordered some activator, but for the life of me can't remember what I got. I am really handy with a paint gun and have learned to paint, tape designs, paint, wetsand for what seems like forever between coats and more after clearing. Not a problem there. Just needed to know what paint was needed.

    Thank you all.
  • loochlooch Posts: 1,837Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 10
    Yes @NWH and @WileECoyote i know the dip will stick to powdercoat if not cured or a clear binder is been put on ive done it on many things i was trying to steer him in the right direction for a beginner getting the basics done using paint made for this process first then venture out once he got that down. This bike was done over blue powdercoat 
  • loochlooch Posts: 1,837Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    And now he bought a new bike look what ive done lol
  • DJ_CritterusDJ_Critterus Posts: 16Member
    edited April 13
    Well, guys. I'm going to give it another shot today. 90deg clean water, part prepped properly with primer and base coat, tape only along two longer edges of the film, and use more activator since I have it in a rattle can. The parts I showed in the post hold on my air filters but are hidden inside the bug catcher on my T-bucket.




    And yes, I am stripping the car this summer. I do all my own powder and paint except for parts that won't fit in my oven. The frame will get powder and I'll paint the body to match after powder is done. By the time I finish it, there will be none of that god forsaken, evil, pain in the butt chrome anywhere on the car.
  • DJ_CritterusDJ_Critterus Posts: 16Member
    This is actually starting to piss me off, now. I dip and the print bunches up around the edge of the part. I add more activator, and it works out better, but then I get the white spots like too much activator and the print bunches up at the end of the dip leaving globs that pull more of the print off the edges. Water at 90deg. Using film and activator from Dipape. Is this a cheap product or is it just technique.






  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,821Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited April 20
    Would help if the part was rinsed. Kind of hard to see the bad areas. Looks like water beat you, and the film bunching up is technique. Looking over activated, but again it’s difficult to tell.
  • DJ_CritterusDJ_Critterus Posts: 16Member
    What do you mean by the water beat me? I'll rinse the parts and get better pics, too.
  • DJ_CritterusDJ_Critterus Posts: 16Member
    O.K. Here are the rinsed pics. As I was rinsing it, some of the print started coming off, too. I used warm water and low pressure.






  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Posts: 1,841Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Still underactivated 
  • PagesHydroDippingPagesHydroDipping Posts: 641Member ✭✭✭
    ^^^agreed. You are still under activated.
  • SpinnerSpinner Posts: 210Member ✭✭✭
    Did you back tape around the inner side of the rim? This will help with the water rushing in...or beating you to the end
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,821Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Yeah, you’re under activated. The film isn’t fully liquified.

    Water beating you means that water came around and touched the part before the film. Technique and back taping will fix it.
  • DJ_CritterusDJ_Critterus Posts: 16Member
    Thanks. I'll give it another shot next weekend when I get time. Concerning under activating, I thought the white spots/dots were a result of that? No?
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.