mossy oak pattern dissolves

Short and sweet,, yes I am semi new to dipping.. but have been having pretty good results for the last month.. just got in Mossy Oak Shadow grass.. first attempt was a flop as I somehow tore the film while on the water.. 2nd attempt,,, after spraying activator .. film literally started disappearing.. the " white " backing just dissolved and left no color to the pattern .. set up.. water temp 88f,, soak time 90-120 seconds { per their recommendation} ,, one solid coat of "hydravator" ,, let set roughly 30 seconds { per their recommendation.. that's when film started dissolving what did I miss ?? any help appreciated.. the film is extremely thick compared to most other films

Comments

  • SreynoldsSreynolds Posts: 1,472Member ✭✭✭✭
    I use superbrew on all mossy oak patterns... When I used to use hydrovator I would dip right after I activated. That stuff is pretty hot...
  • 4WESTHYDRO4WESTHYDRO Posts: 13Member
    hmm I've noticed several of my dips on other materials would "fade" out and really felt I wasn't actually spraying too much activator.. maybe this is just too hot for me being a beginner ? I have also got some Dip Demon premium blend,, Think it will be same better or worse lol... not knocking these companies.. just trying to get it right...
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,632Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    I personally believe Hydrovator is too hot for Mossy Oak films. Mossy Sauce (mossy oak's activator) is weaker. Regular K2 Brew would be comparable.
  • SreynoldsSreynolds Posts: 1,472Member ✭✭✭✭
    super brew or mossy sauce is going to be your best bet... I use superbrew on most everything I dip! The color retention is awesome...
  • 4WESTHYDRO4WESTHYDRO Posts: 13Member
    thanks Guys,, this may be part of my problem with some other issues I've had.. like color fade.. as if I try to put less activator { thinking it would cause less of an issue} then I would have the typical "under activation issues",, if I lay down the activator as I think I should and film glasses and looks good on water ,, by the time I grab my product and dip... when it comes out ,, color fade is apparent .. Anyone give me insight on the "dip demon premium blend" I have.. can I expect it to be as hot ?
  • SreynoldsSreynolds Posts: 1,472Member ✭✭✭✭
    no clue about the dip demon
  • 4WESTHYDRO4WESTHYDRO Posts: 13Member
    may be a question that been answered somewhere else in the forum.. but is there any way to tame down the hydrovator? I will be ordering some of the mossy sauce { big brain has been great to deal with.. but needing to dip this weekend ..

  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,697Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Don't start mixing yourself. Just wait for the stuff to get delivered.
  • PagesHydroDippingPagesHydroDipping Posts: 612Member ✭✭✭
    I would order some super brew. That is all I use nowadays. Great color retention
  • versuspaintversuspaint Posts: 223Member ✭✭✭
    @4WESTHYDRO Where are you from? There are a lot of people on here, might be able to find someone with a better activator and buy some from them.
  • 4WESTHYDRO4WESTHYDRO Posts: 13Member
    Ok so update Dip demon premium. Contacted them, they say great to use lot less aggressive. Very helpful. But the results are still not good. Didn't burn the film up but I this film has a white backing. Hard to read. Hit with activator one solid but not heave pass. Film doesn't really glass like others. The white background stays same. Try to dip. Underactivated. Film stayed together didn't transfer well etc. re do. 2 passes. Then the white background reacts. But basically mini cracks everywhere in pattern. And of course the dip has the same look. Cracked. If this was painting a car I'd call it blistering Hope to be able to attach pics. Btw. I am in N Mississppi For @versuspaint
  • SreynoldsSreynolds Posts: 1,472Member ✭✭✭✭
    Super brew would be at your door in two days and you wouldn't be waisting that film ..... Im in Alabama and struggle with humidity just like you in Mississippi im sure, watch how your store that film....
  • 4WESTHYDRO4WESTHYDRO Posts: 13Member
    Sreynolds said:

    Super brew would be at your door in two days and you wouldn't be waisting that film ..... Im in Alabama and struggle with humidity just like you in Mississippi im sure, watch how your store that film....

    How do I get in touch with you
  • SreynoldsSreynolds Posts: 1,472Member ✭✭✭✭
    2057182313
  • 4WESTHYDRO4WESTHYDRO Posts: 13Member
    edited February 10
    1. Wow. Quadruple post.  No idea what happened.  Sorry guys 
    Post edited by 4WESTHYDRO on
  • 4WESTHYDRO4WESTHYDRO Posts: 13Member
    Pic of cups last pic is right out of tank but you can see the blistering.  One pic with film. The mats the “white background” look I’m referring to that blisters up on water when activator Hits it 
  • 4WESTHYDRO4WESTHYDRO Posts: 13Member
    edited February 10
    Pic of cups last pic is right out of tank but you can see the blistering.  One pic with film. The mats the “white background” look I’m referring to that blisters up on water when activator Hits it 
  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Posts: 1,794Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    I get those cracks when I run MO as well. No matter what activator I use and no matter which MO film. I was told that means its still underactivated 
  • SreynoldsSreynolds Posts: 1,472Member ✭✭✭✭
    AHHHHHH ! I had the same problem before ..... Ok, bring tank up to 95 degrees, let hydrate for 60 seconds, activate and dip right away.... I mean fast ... like have the part in hand ready to go ! see what that does let me know
  • PagesHydroDippingPagesHydroDipping Posts: 612Member ✭✭✭
    Your film is dried out. I have had this same problem before and have played around with different solutions. Cut your piece of film and lay it out on your cut table. Give a very, very light very fast pass of activator. Then give it about 10-15 minutes to soften of before putting it on the water. After the 10-15 min proceed with normal process 90° 90sec soak(for MO)
  • studebakerstudebaker Posts: 3,155Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your film is dried out. I have had this same problem before and have played around with different solutions. Cut your piece of film and lay it out on your cut table. Give a very, very light very fast pass of activator. Then give it about 10-15 minutes to soften of before putting it on the water. After the 10-15 min proceed with normal process 90° 90sec soak(for MO)

    ⬆ ⬆ ⬆ THIS ⬆ ⬆ ⬆

    The film is dried out for sure, BUT I see major overactivation from the image being all runny and imprecise. The PagesHydroDipping technique will help with this too because the excessive dwell time gives the ink time to get runny before being fixed in place by the substrate....
  • 4WESTHYDRO4WESTHYDRO Posts: 13Member
    edited February 10
    @studebaker. Hard to believe it's over activated on a single pass. The pattern itself cracks and blister on water as soon as activator hits it. @pageshydrodipping. I may try your suggestion. Also I have noticed that the film isn't pliable as most films , Tears very easily. You have to be somewhat delicate with it. Several pieces of film have torn the,selves while sitting on the water Not touching it o anything
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,632Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    We tested this and found it to be bad film. New roll eliminated the problem. I don’t order more Mossy Oak than I need for a run of parts. Even in my humidity controlled office, it’ll get too dry and crack like this. Blades is awful for it.
  • studebakerstudebaker Posts: 3,155Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    What is happening with PagesHydroDippings method is that the light activator pass on the table is softening the ink, because it will dry back out after sitting there 15 minutes (and become more pliable). Also, while it is lying on the table for the time the activator is evaporating back out the PVA Film is able to absorb some humidity from the air and become a little more pliable when handled.

    It is most likely a defective film because it was probably wound too tight on the roll at the factory. I've seen high production companies reject rolls of film like that and then it gets sold to low production guys like us when it should have been discarded.

    PS, the white ink on the back is not the problem, like you were speculating, because it is applied to all film as a fixative and humidity controller. Just the other film that is not "white" is clear ink.
  • 4WESTHYDRO4WESTHYDRO Posts: 13Member
    edited February 10
    So in y’alls opinion. Would you ask for the film to be made right by supplier or just order more in hopes of better film and markthis down as a bought lesson. 
  • studebakerstudebaker Posts: 3,155Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ordering more from the same vendor will get you the same film from the same roll...

    So does that mean you aren't gonna try PagesHydroDipping's methodology to get it to work?
  • 4WESTHYDRO4WESTHYDRO Posts: 13Member
    edited February 11
    @studebaker absolutely not.... I am going to try the method in hopes of not wasting expensive film.. but I do need to clarify.. theis roll was sold as a bundle,, all marked as " end of roll" I got 4 pattern designs all of which are less than 3 meters,, which is the standard order minimum for any given pattern of Mossy Oak...
  • studebakerstudebaker Posts: 3,155Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thank you for the clarification.... Who was the vendor? Just curious, that's all. I wonder how of many they have sold of the "End of roll" deal, already. 200, 300.... Hmmm

    Please let us know if your new plan works. The results may help thousands and thousands... or just a couple of us. :-)
  • 4WESTHYDRO4WESTHYDRO Posts: 13Member
    Big Brain...was/is the supplier .. Again I am semi new to the game.. I do realize sometimes things happen... not trying to cast blame..just had me racking my brain of what am I doing wrong..
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