Tank Heating Questions

So for the guys who live in colder climates how are you keeping your tanks to temp?
Is it more cost effective to get it to temp and leave it on 24/7 or rather than spending hours bringing it to temp each time you need to use it?

I have a liquid print MDT -27 that is wrapped in 1" insulation board with a lid made out of it as well. Currently i'm not dipping everyday so I have only been going out every few days and bringing the tank to temp. It takes roughly 4-5 hours to bring to temp by using the spray bar to recirculate water through the tank. There has to be a better way that doesn't require me to use my spray bar for hours and put the wear and tear on the main pump.

Right now Ohio weather is around 30-40 degrees during the day and has dropped to high teens at night and the tank has dropped to around 56 degrees. This is after 3-4 days of not being on.

My initial thought is to supplement a constant heat source with a 1000w aquarium heater that I would just leave on constantly when the tank isn't in use. I have read in searched post where this works well for guys, but the post were a few years old. I wasn't sure if there was something better by now.

Comments

  • PagesHydroDippingPagesHydroDipping Posts: 572Member ✭✭✭
    How cold is it getting in your shop/garage?
  • Militant83Militant83 Posts: 126Member ✭✭
    @PagesHydroDipping That i'm not sure, I would assume since at the moment it is uninsulated and not heated pretty close to the outside temp. We will be insulating and putting heaters in soon to try to keep the shop to a constant 60 degrees.
  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Posts: 1,702Member ✭✭✭✭
    @MidOhioHydrographics could prolly give ya some insight being in ohio and having same tank 
  • Militant83Militant83 Posts: 126Member ✭✭
    @DeviousDips Yeah I have spoke with Joe. He is my go to since he is somewhat close and has the same tank lol.. He made some upgrades to his tank and being a production shop leaves his on 24/7 to keep it at operating temp. I wouldn't mind upgrading the system later on down the road by adding a means of constant re circulation other than using the main pump and spray bar. But in the short term that is not in the cards.
  • versuspaintversuspaint Posts: 221Member ✭✭✭
    @Militant83 get a livestock bucket heater, there are some out there that work great to keep it more constant.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,520Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Our tank in Wisconsin is WELL insulated. In the dead of winter in an insulated garage with no supplemented heat we lost 3° f. The effort to insulate every part of your tank will pay off. Take some time and you won't have to worry so much about it. This includes underneath, and around the lid. If you have access to a thermal imaging camera, or a non-contact pyrometer you can find a lot of areas you didn't think of.


  • loochlooch Posts: 1,760Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Put another layer of insulation on it two inch foam board with the foil backing on the top
  • smedlinsmedlin Posts: 1,914Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    Screw that cold crap.. move south
  • NWHNWH Posts: 59Member ✭✭
    https://amazon.com/Farm-Innovators-W-449-Submergible-Attached/dp/B000HHO3Z4/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1542044475&sr=8-25&keywords=stock+tank+heater

    Put on a timer so it shuts on and off to maintain temp. You will have to play with the amount of time it stays on and off.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,435Administrator El Jefe
    edited November 12
    smedlin said:

    Screw that cold crap.. move south

    This...

    @Militant83 You have to be careful of recirculating your dirty water into a water heater or something like that because those things were never designed to have dirty water introduced into them...they, almost without exception, are made to heat and hold clean potable water...you start introducing dirty water and you are almost guaranteeing a heating element failure or some other weird problem that the original designers did not account for in their design...introducing water with the kind of chemicals we put into it? Almost a surefire way to experience some REALLY weird problems...
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,520Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator

    smedlin said:

    Screw that cold crap.. move south

    This...
    As if those warmer cities aren't already overflowing with people... I will stay where I am, thank you.
  • Militant83Militant83 Posts: 126Member ✭✭
    @smedlin If I could I would brother, I would be in Arizona right now if it was possible for my family. @K2Concepts Yeah I get that, It wasn't the route I really wanted to go anyways. I think if I get the garage heating going then up the insulation on the tank then I may be good. But I do like the idea of a 1000 watt aquarium heater to put in the main tank with it being on a thermostat and just make sure it is off while dipping.

    Time to start getting this all figured out lol, I will be heading to Big Brain in a couple weeks for their platinum training class.
  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Posts: 1,702Member ✭✭✭✭
    @Militant83 ; I have a 4x4x3 and use 1000 w aquarium heater and it takes about 4 to 5 hr to get to 85 degrees. That's using it on the dipping side. I have 1" insulation on sides bottom and top. Just for a reference. Also live in Ohio
  • Militant83Militant83 Posts: 126Member ✭✭
    @DeviousDips I was thinking with that it might be more cost efficient to just get it to the desired temp once and use the aquarium heater to hold the temp when the tank isnt being used so I eliminate the 4-5 hour warming window. I would imagine the aquarium heaters wouldnt be too bad on the electric bill.  

    What part of Ohio are you in?
  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Posts: 1,702Member ✭✭✭✭
    Willard ohio. About 45 min north of Joe
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,465Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    NWH said:

    https://amazon.com/Farm-Innovators-W-449-Submergible-Attached/dp/B000HHO3Z4/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1542044475&sr=8-25&keywords=stock+tank+heater

    Put on a timer so it shuts on and off to maintain temp. You will have to play with the amount of time it stays on and off.

    The PID should do that already with the thermostat.

    Guys remember.... You're heating the same amount of water to the same temperature, which requires energy. Maintaining temperature is going to take a certain amount of energy. Lower wattage will just stay on longer to transfer the same amount of energy required to do the same job. To make this more efficient, you can increase the surface area of your heating element, or insulate better, or keep it at a lower temp. A lower "storage" temperature will take less time to get it up to temp when you're ready, and conserve energy at that temp. Any of those will work. Now changing to a smaller circulating pump can help so you're not using your large pump to circulate. Jim or Trevor can clarify this a bit better. There is probably a little bit more variability that that, but overall it's just physics. If you're not dipping every day, I would just turn it on ample time before you want to dip, like the night before or the morning before you go to work if you're dipping that evening. Otherwise, just leave it off so you're not heating something that isn't being used.
  • NWHNWH Posts: 59Member ✭✭
    edited November 13
    That heater will only shut off at 110 degrees that why you use a timer. Been using them for 10 Years now.
    This way I don't need to actually have tank running all the time and less wear and tear on tank element and pump.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,465Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    NWH said:

    That heater will only shut off at 110 degrees that why you use a timer. Been using them for 10 Years now.
    This way I don't need to actually have tank running all the time and less wear and tear on tank element and pump.

    I don't know if I'm understanding correctly. You're saying keeping it at 90 deg F allows your water to fluctuate to 110 degrees?

    On our LP MDT27 tank, I actually changed from one 6kw element to two 2500w elements that are about 4" longer each, and heavier element loops. We were burning through elements about every month due to our hard water. The element getting too hot, and the calcification and film bits were burning up on the element. Have had these in for pushing a year now and going strong. Still look like new. The new elements increased the surface area by over double (lower watt density) and it has helped tremendously. We also have a small spa pump plumbed between the drains of the scavenge and dip tank. Pulls 0.2A (less than a 40W light bulb), and just slowly circulates to keep the dip area at a constant temp. Not for everyone, but we are dipping lots of parts every day, and I like it to be as consistent as possible. One less variable.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,520Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    If your dam is made of stainless, you may not need to circulate. If the temp sensor is on the same side as the elements, you will probably be fine unless you evaporate all the water. This was another thing we learned.
  • NWHNWH Posts: 59Member ✭✭

    NWH said:

    That heater will only shut off at 110 degrees that why you use a timer. Been using them for 10 Years now.
    This way I don't need to actually have tank running all the time and less wear and tear on tank element and pump.

    I don't know if I'm understanding correctly. You're saying keeping it at 90 deg F allows your water to fluctuate to 110 degrees?

    The heater is a Trough bucket heater they are designed to heat water to 110 and shut down. I plug it into a timer like a light switch timer and have it come on for a couple of hours through the night to keep my tank at 92 degrees this allows me to not even have to run my main element most of the time.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,465Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited November 14
    NWH said:


    The heater is a Trough bucket heater they are designed to heat water to 110 and shut down. I plug it into a timer like a light switch timer and have it come on for a couple of hours through the night to keep my tank at 92 degrees this allows me to not even have to run my main element most of the time.

    Oh crap! I was NOT thinking the trough bucket heater. I was meaning the tank heater. I'm sorry.
  • NWHNWH Posts: 59Member ✭✭
    Those are rated to 1100 watts the heater element i am recommending is 1500 watts again i think sometimes we tend to over look simplicity.
  • Militant83Militant83 Posts: 126Member ✭✭
    edited November 15
    @NWH Right but they make other models that go to 1500w I was thinking of the concept of it. As far as simplicity goes you cant get much more simple than plugging something in and setting a temp. It would be the same concept as plugging into a timer and setting the timer to a certain time interval. With this you dont have to figure out what timing interval keeps the water at your desired temp and it seems more accurate and is pretty cheap.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DK61NYY/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

    This one has a max wattage of 1650w
  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Posts: 1,702Member ✭✭✭✭
    @Militant83 I use the same exact one you posted about and it has worked great. I haven't had any issues so far. I've been using mine for about 3 months which isn't long but so far so good
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 1,051Member ✭✭✭
    NWH said:

    Those are rated to 1100 watts the heater element i am recommending is 1500 watts again i think sometimes we tend to over look simplicity.
    I used one of these and a bucket heater for a small tank I used to dip in. Now I use it for a thermometer for my tank, and can drop a tank heater on it if I need to. They work really good and are priced right.


  • Militant83Militant83 Posts: 126Member ✭✭
    @DeviousDips @norcalfrank Thanks guys, I will be going this route as well.
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