New member Melbourne australia

Hi everyone, new (side) business start up in melbourne..
Fortunate enough to be based at a well equipped bodyshop with a water based ppg paint system. I haven't been going long and I'm still getting to grips with some of the processes.
I'd say 90% of my dips are coming out good although I am having problems with a particular film, if any could direct me to a discussion on this forum that would be great.. 
Just briefly, I'm using a red/black snakeskin film.. Initially it hydrates OK but when I activate it, it expands then somehow folds in on itself, I've tried taping all edges, two edges, no tape just dams, taping it to the tank, however I just can't seem to stop it folding in on itself.
It's frustrating the **badword** out of me as there's projects I want to do with this film. 
Thanks guys




Comments

  • studebakerstudebaker Posts: 3,127Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    One way to alleviate this problem is to "pre-soften" the ink before hydration. Essentially, you will LIGHTLY spray activator on the film while it is still on the cut table. And then let it mostly dry back up before you place the film on the water for the normal hydration/ activation process. But that doesn't work if the PVA film is dry "crisp" or "crunchy"... It that case it needs to set out unrolled in a 50% humidity environment for a while till it's not "brittle" anymore. Your problem stems from too much difference between the ink and film activation levels. Exceptionally dry film hydrates too fast/much and wrinkling becomes a problem before and after activation.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,638Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited September 2018
    Dams need to be moved to allow expansion of the film after activation. Before I start spraying activator on the cutting table, I would get some pictures on here and ask for opinions. I don't know any film that had to resort to that process before, so I would exhaust all possibilities first. Even a video of the activation process would help tremendously.

    In the meantime. http://www.k2forums.com/discussion/10060/troubleshooting-your-first-few-dips#latest
    Post edited by WileECoyote on
  • NickelCityHydroNickelCityHydro Posts: 692Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    Welcome to the forum!
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,542Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Welcome!!
  • smedlinsmedlin Posts: 1,961Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    Howdy and welcome to the forums!

    I've never seen a film that, once hydrated and allowed to expand/contract, THEN dammed up... would then once activated would expand over itself.

    Activation (should) turn it into a true liquid. I don't see how it can fold over itself.

    Anybody else ever come across that?
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,495Administrator El Jefe
    Welcome to the forum and please...some pics would help...
  • ReservoirdipsReservoirdips Posts: 5Member
    Thanks guys, I'll be trying again on saturday so I'll get some pics and/or vids up..
    For the record I've noticed it takes a lot more activator than any other film I've worked with.. It just seems to soak it up. 
  • JeremyJeremy Posts: 1,111Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 2018
    @Reservoirdips where did you buy your film from?? Maybe see if you can contact Steve Vella at Melbourne Hydrographics he should be able to help and he also sells film.
  • ShannonShannon Posts: 182Member ✭✭✭
    Is that the silver metallic backed film? I’ve had trouble with that one in the past myself
  • ReservoirdipsReservoirdips Posts: 5Member
    Shannon said:
    Is that the silver metallic backed film? I’ve had trouble with that one in the past myself
    Yeah it is.. I've got a silver backed flame pattern film which is basically the same and is giving me a headache too, not as bad as this snake print though 
  • DallenDallen Posts: 1,734Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭
    welcome to the forum
  • onehitwonderonehitwonder Posts: 2,755Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    Welcome!
  • smedlinsmedlin Posts: 1,961Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've used several of the silver backed films.

    I never had an issue. None of them have ever folded back in on itself. And I've done some fair size pieces.

    Really need to see a video of this to see what's going on.
  • ShannonShannon Posts: 182Member ✭✭✭
    Shannon said:
    Is that the silver metallic backed film? I’ve had trouble with that one in the past myself
    Yeah it is.. I've got a silver backed flame pattern film which is basically the same and is giving me a headache too, not as bad as this snake print though 
    I haven’t had a problem with the other silver backed films, just the snake pattern one. I find they are a little more thirsty for activator though
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,495Administrator El Jefe
    If it's the red boa with a silver backing? Yea that's not an easy film...we buy the red boa WITHOUT the silver backing for just that reason...
  • ReservoirdipsReservoirdips Posts: 5Member
    So, I had another go over the weekend and I think I realised what the issue is. 
    It seems the film is particularly dry, so, where I was only leaving it in the water for 1 min before activating. I tried leaving it to hydrate for about 4/5 min instead and it seems to be coming out better, the issue I have now is there seems to be a very thin line between too much and too little activator.. I couldn't get much footage as the pump on my tank broke its seals so I'll have to get that fixed before I can continue
  • ReservoirdipsReservoirdips Posts: 5Member
    If it's the red boa with a silver backing? Yea that's not an easy film...we buy the red boa WITHOUT the silver backing for just that reason...
    Yes it is this one.. 
  • studebakerstudebaker Posts: 3,127Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm glad to see it was a dry film problem as I predicted... But leaving the film on the water to hydrate 4/5 minutes will open a whole new can of problems you have to work around. Really, loosely re-roll the film and leave it out to gain humidity from the atmosphere to a 50% level and dip it normally. The only film that should hydrate that long is 70-micron thick machine production film. (but then, of course, it may be that kind of film.) Does it feel thicker than the other film on your shelf?

    The silver ink has a different pigment carrier and dosen't melt as quickly as the ink we normally use, and it causes the underlying inks (red and black) to melt erratically and more slowly. That's why I previously recommended the "pre softening" of the ink before you placed it on the water. I still recommend that for most silver backed films, even if other people haven't heard of doing that before. :s
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,638Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Post pictures. Most films do not have a fine window between over and underactication
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