Sun damage

BryanRohrBryanRohr Posts: 94Member ✭✭✭
I've done lots of wheels and I've actually never encountered this problem before. It's been about a year-and-a-half since I dipped flames on to these wheels and they have faded badly. They were top coated with MC series cerakote which I've always known to have a pretty good UV protection (maybe not after all?). Is it a problem in using cheap film, or the top coat, or was it a bad hit? How do I prevent this from ever happening again? I'm sure there's a better top coat product that perhaps would be better to use, I've just gotten so used to Cerakote which I am a fan of and have had good success with. Hell, I don't really know. Thax guys for any feedback.

Comments

  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Posts: 1,617Member ✭✭✭✭
    I'm not of fan of the MC series from cerakote at all. I believe nanochem clears are alot better. The film can also be some of the problem as well. But a clear with good UV protection will help I would think. 
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,338Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Film has a lot to do with it. The inks in the films have to be high quality UV resistant. The topcoat helps as well. Also not a fan of Cerakote clears. NanoChem or Prime Coatings Matte clears are better and less expensive.
  • loochlooch Posts: 1,706Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ive had the same problem with a film on vent shades faded in 6 months and that had 3 coats @onehitwonder gloss clear on it
  • TroubleTrouble Posts: 341Member ✭✭✭
    I was told by a paint guy that clear clear coat has little to no uv protection while amber colored clear has uv protection. 
  • SkinEDippinSkinEDippin Posts: 81Member ✭✭
    Yes. generally speaking the "clearer" the clear is the less UV protection it has, so you want a clear coat with a little yellow tint to it, This is what my paint rep has always said. BASF paints
  • TrayersSlayersTrayersSlayers Posts: 247Member ✭✭✭
    Film has a lot to do with it. The inks in the films have to be high quality UV resistant. The topcoat helps as well. Also not a fan of Cerakote clears. NanoChem or Prime Coatings Matte clears are better and less expensive.

    This right here
  • BryanRohrBryanRohr Posts: 94Member ✭✭✭
    I can understand that nonochem (and similar) clears are better as far as a clear coat goes visually, and I use them for almost everything. But when I'm doing stuff like wheels or firearms or anything that's going to be taking serious abuse, that's when I use cerakote, I will give them credit when we're talking abrasion, chemical and impact resistance, it's a great product. As far as their UV protection, although they claim it's pretty good, I'm seeing otherwise. So what's a good middle ground product? One that will take the abuse that a nonachem clear may not and hold up to extreme abuse like a Cerakote (or like) product will, only under the same UV conditions?. (P.S. I'm calling Cerakote to get what their excuse may be because I'm not impressed at the moment....I'll post their comments later)
  • BryanRohrBryanRohr Posts: 94Member ✭✭✭
    And as far as film goes.....obviously you get what you pay for (cough cough China cough), so my guess is that I should be calling Studebaker for a fresh print? (Calling you soon bud lol)
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,338Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    BryanRohr said:

    I can understand that nonochem (and similar) clears are better as far as a clear coat goes visually, and I use them for almost everything. But when I'm doing stuff like wheels or firearms or anything that's going to be taking serious abuse, that's when I use cerakote, I will give them credit when we're talking abrasion, chemical and impact resistance, it's a great product. As far as their UV protection, although they claim it's pretty good, I'm seeing otherwise. So what's a good middle ground product? One that will take the abuse that a nonachem clear may not and hold up to extreme abuse like a Cerakote (or like) product will, only under the same UV conditions?. (P.S. I'm calling Cerakote to get what their excuse may be because I'm not impressed at the moment....I'll post their comments later)

    I would put NanoChem or Prime Coatings up against Cerakote in any situation. I’ve spoke with very reputable companies that have performed side by side comparisons. I’m a certified Cerakote applicator. LOVE their H and Elite Series Coatings. We use them weekly. For the hydrographics side? Their air cure clears just don’t stand up against others. Some of their bake on clears are great. But the MC161 is not good. The test was performed by a reputable and very intelligent hydro company who was coating knives for a large OEM. Well known company. They coated samples in numerous clears and put them in a tumbler. The Cerakote wore through before quite a few others. I use NanoChem or Prime Coatings on all projects. Even those have certain products I use for certain applications. I will use Cerakote if I know there will be a tight fit and mil thickness matters. Again, per specific situations. Don’t limit yourself to a product without first doing your own testing. Cerakote has fantastic marketing. Again, I’m a certified applicator. But there are better products out there. Talk to some guys about GunKote. Has tested better also (I can’t speak personally for this), just doesn’t have the marketing behind it. That is specifically why I went and got certified by Cerakote. I want OEM Work and they want Cerakote.
  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Posts: 1,617Member ✭✭✭✭
    I'm a fan of cerakote thats baked but their air dry just isnt what they were hoping for. Tamco paints make a high impact clear coat that is tough as any air dry clear I've seen. I'm a fan of Big Brain Graffiti Gloss for toughness as well for wheels or motorcycles. 
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,306Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Prime Coatings supplies the clear for Harley Davidson's Tomahawk plant, and Harley's CVO and Dealer Direct painter, and that same clear (120 series XG080) is available to you. Just saying... few hundred motorcycles a day, designed to be in the sun.
  • BryanRohrBryanRohr Posts: 94Member ✭✭✭
    Mid Ohio, That's great information and I respect the input. Same to WileE and the rest. I'm becoming increasingly unimpressed with the MC Cerakote and it's good to know that I'm not alone. I used to use Gunkote quite a bit and I was a fan, but I think I let Cerakotes marketing get the best of me like MidOhio mentioned. Prime coatings, I'm on my way. Thanks again for the input fellas.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,338Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @BryanRohr talk to Dan Curtin at Prime Coatings ([email protected]) or Marc Devaud from On Pace Finishing Solutions for NanoChem paints/clears ([email protected]). They are insanely knowledgeable and both extremely kind. Dan recently stopped by my shop and I’ve met Marc a couple times as well. You won’t be disappointed.
  • ForsiForsi Posts: 217Member ✭✭✭
    Unfortunately I must agree with the others regarding the air cure Cerakote clears. We have just finished testing the air cure clears on some products and they have failed miserably, which is very disappointing and disheartening. We will continue using the bake Cerakote H series, etc. for products, but unfortunately unless Cerakote drastically improves the air cure clears I do not see that as a viable option as compared to the 'standard' gloss and matte clears we have been using with better success...
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,338Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    I’ve heard good things about their bake on clears. Never used them tho
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,306Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @MidOhioHydrographics You actually got Dan all the way out to OHIO? He lives about 15 min from me.
  • SreynoldsSreynolds Posts: 1,368Member ✭✭✭✭
    Did I miss something here ??? I agree air cured cerakote clear aint what its cracked up to be. Are you guys that cerakote just not using a clear at all ? I know that u don't have to ....Im just asking... In my experience no other clear will bond to cerakote. When I tried it, it just beaded up on the paint.. @MidOhioHydrographics @Forsi
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,338Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @Sreynolds Yeah their H-Series Cerakote doesn't need a topcoat. Bake it and go. Is that what you're referring to? Are you using bake on Cerakote then applying a topcoat over it? Asking for delamination. If not, then ignore the rest of this, but for sake of information, you shouldn't spray anything over cured Cerakote because there is no bond occurring. I had a couple people on a Cerakote facebook group claim they were doing it and I questioned it. Doesn't make sense. Remember there are two types of bonds: Mechanical and Chemical. Mechanical requires a scuff (like scuffing a bad dip and repainting or scuffing/sanding cured clear and shooting over it), otherwise you're just hoping it sticks due to the adhesive properties. Chemical requires the topcoat to essentially "melt" into the base. Like 2k solvent base over a dip or paint. Creates a solid layer. Fully Cerakote is so chemical resistant, this isn't going to happen.

    Now, their bake on clears are a different story. You can shoot cerakote, flash, apply bake on clear and bake it on together. Like flashing between colors.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,240Administrator El Jefe

    I had a couple people on a Cerakote facebook group claim they were doing it and I questioned it. Doesn't make sense.

    Yea...about that...
  • SreynoldsSreynolds Posts: 1,368Member ✭✭✭✭
    No Joe , @MidOhioHydrographics I must have gotten confused here... I thought some other type clear was being applied to H series, and I knew it couldn't be right. All I use cerakotes clear on is my dipped stuff ...IF... the customer demands it . If not , I stay away from it now days. The **badword** cost to much anyway....
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,338Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Sreynolds said:

    No Joe , @MidOhioHydrographics I must have gotten confused here... I thought some other type clear was being applied to H series, and I knew it couldn't be right. All I use cerakotes clear on is my dipped stuff ...IF... the customer demands it . If not , I stay away from it now days. The **badword** cost to much anyway....

    I understand... Ok good! I didn't think that's what you meant, but went on to clarify just in case someone else was reading.

    I am however looking into using Gun Candy with their H-301 Matte Armor clear. It's a 2-component bake on clear, and I've heard great things. The colors on Gun Candy's website are very nice, and we have a bow company trying to match some metallic red/metallic blue options. I believe the H-301 is able to be applied over the H-Series cerakote just like you do layering colors, but I'm confirming with NIC on that.


    Yea...about that...

    Well, it's actually a great group. For Certified Applicators only. Some fantastic and damn impressive work, advice and techniques get shared on there. But the are strict on who can join.
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