Help!!! Film washing off and fading during rinse

mackeledmackeled Posts: 4Member
edited December 2017 in Tips and Techniques
I am new to the site. I have been dipping for a few years. I have never had a problem until this year. I have a bunch of guys waiting on European skull mounts and I am at my wits end. I typically use blue mist activator and ran out so I was using something I had laying around and thought maybe that was the issue. Got blue mist delivered yesterday and I am still having the same problem. The film lays nice on the skull until I rinse and then it washes off and fades . I use automotive grade primer and paint . Any help is grately appreciated , I don’t know what to do at this point. Today was my fourth try with this and it happens every time . 
Ring 

Comments

  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited December 2017
    Welcome, Ed! Thanks for joining. I responded to your email but will respond here as well. It looks like you are just under activated. Grab some practice parts like light switch cover plates or speed shapes And to try a little more activator. What paint are you using? How long did it cure before you dipped? What is your water temperature, soak time, and how is your activator being applied? If using a spraygun, what pressure are you running and what size tip does it have?
  • IceMasterIceMaster Posts: 1,333Member ✭✭✭✭
    I'm going to assume that you use these same paints etc for everything else? Usually, if the film is washing off, I right away lean towards over activated. Are you waiting any length of time between dipping and rinsing and if so, how long? Maybe try just a bit less activator and rinse it almost immediately
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Jagged holes = under activated
    Smooth holes opening up like oil separating from water = over activated.
  • mackeledmackeled Posts: 4Member
    I use duplicolor automotive paint, which is what I have always used. I am currently using blue mist applicator in an aerosol can . In all honesty, I dipnout of my heated basement and don’t check ( and have never) my water temperature. Paint cured for 24hrs before initial dip .  I will try some practice shapes this afternoon , thanks for everyone’s help
  • smedlinsmedlin Posts: 1,880Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    Paint may be closed up.

    how often do you normally wait, after you paint and before you dip.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited December 2017
    Yeah I’m sorry to say, brother. I see the problems. This process will kick you in the teeth if you don’t get some consistency in your setup.
    It could be any of the following things:
    (1) incompatible paint (aerosols are inconsistent even within a brand of paint. Some work, some do not).
    (2) if Paint is compatible, you dipped outside the acceptable window. If it’s too cured, the paint will not accept the dip
    (3) water temperature too cold (contributes to under activation)
    (4) insufficient soak time (film not fully broken down, as water temp decreases, soak time must increase)
    (5) Insufficient or uneven activator application (very common with aerosol activators)

    If you want consistent results, get some paint that has been proven to work with the process. One Hit Wonder, Low Country Hydro Paint, Kansas Hydro DTP and Big Brain NanoChem paints all come in aerosols. With the One Hit Wonder 12 for 12 deal you can cover all your basic base colors for $12 a can. Hard to beat.

    Also, get a comprsssor and HVLP gun. One Hit Wonder also sells LVLP (low volume low pressure) guns that can be used with a small compressor. I prefer an HVLP gun. K2 Concepts sells Iwata Air Gunsa Guns that are usually the minimum I recommend for an activator gun. 99% of problems in this process comes from improper activation. Don’t shoot your self in the foot.

    Finally, start documenting. I don’t like dipping in water less than 90 degrees. Others (like yourself) dip in room temp water. That can work, but you will need to know how long films take to fully break down and be ready to dip.

    Normal parameters are 90 degree water, 60 second soak.

    This process is full of variables and is very finicky even when controlling everything I mentioned above. Try to get some consistency in your process. In general, aerosols are your enemy.
  • smedlinsmedlin Posts: 1,880Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭



    This process is full of variables and is very finicky even when controlling everything I mentioned above. Try to get some consistency in your process.

    this right here.
  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Posts: 1,651Member ✭✭✭✭
    The paint is fine if he is dipping with in a week. I have used it several times in a pinch and actually works really well. I use it with certain colors now since I can run 2 min up the road to get it. I have left on the shelf for up to 8 days and then dipping with no issues

  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator

    The paint is fine if he is dipping with in a week. I have used it several times in a pinch and actually works really well. I use it with certain colors now since I can run 2 min up the road to get it. I have left on the shelf for up to 8 days and then dipping with no issues

    Perfect. Thanks for confirming!

    I’m still going with under activation due to lack of activator or insufficient soak time/water too cold.
  • MikeBMikeB Posts: 61Member
    I DO ALOT OF SKULLS THE LARGE AREA above the teeth and to the front of the nose and just behind the eye sockets the water is beating you
  • MikeBMikeB Posts: 61Member
    Next time you dip one really watch just in front of the film and you will see were the water is getting to the skull before the film
  • mackeledmackeled Posts: 4Member
    edited December 2017
    MikeB said:

    Next time you dip one really watch just in front of the film and you will see were the water is getting to the skull before the film

    What do you suggest to prevent this? Slowing down? I have never had this problem before.

  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,403Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Preventing the water from rushing in there... tape usually helps with that
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,340Administrator El Jefe

    Jagged holes = under activated
    Smooth holes opening up like oil separating from water = over activated.

    This...

    Preventing the water from rushing in there... tape usually helps with that

    Or high-density foam...like "Pick and Pluck" foam...
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    We just dip a little faster. We double dip all skulls. Tape at wherever the film comes to, and then dip from the bottom. Best way we've found to get perfect coverage.
  • mackeledmackeled Posts: 4Member
    Tried using more activator and letting soak longer than I normally do and did 2 successful dips tonight. I switched out the water in my tank and never thought about the water being too cold. Thanks everyone 
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,404Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Awesome! Glad you got it dialed in. Well done!
  • MikeBMikeB Posts: 61Member
    yep you gota back tape.
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