Head Bashing Continued Adhesion Fail — K2Forums.com

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Head Bashing Continued Adhesion Fail

Hey All,
I'm pretty sure this question has been answered by you many, many times. I have been through the Q&A discussions several times. I have read the discussion - "hydrographics film problem. Stretching, holes, rips" - several times and have attempted to make changes as suggested, I have watched Jim's Videos several times. However! I have been unable to solve the problem of ripping in the bends and corners.
1) I have increased the volume of activator applied
2) I have decreased the volume of activator applied
3) I have increased activator soak time
4) I have decreased activator soak time
5) I have increased water soak time
6) I have decreased water soak time
7) NO CHANGE AAAAARG!!!! :o
8) I bashed my head against the wall until unconscious
9) I felt so much better from stopping the head bashing
10) I came here for some advice
11) Yes! I still have absolutely no idea. :s
12) below are the end result after 15 dips :|





What am I doing incorrectly???????????

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


«1

Comments

  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Posts: 1,142Member ✭✭✭✭
    @Clueless. I have found on doing objects with sharp or deep voids if i feed into the film instead of just doing a straight in dip on an angle seems to help. 
  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,138Member, Moderator El Moderator
    What activator are you using and what are you using to apply it with? The carbon fiber has both under activation (left side of the picture, faded, light colored areas and jagged edged void in the recessed area) and over activation (smooth edged voids that look like oil and water spreading open). It looks like you don't have a reliable method of applying the activator. Possibly dripping activator while spraying.

    This is not as easy as Youtube makes it look. Practicing daily, without proper professional training, you are looking at about a year of practicing on your own before you get really consistent good dips. This is if you have good, professional quality tools and materials. If you don't, then you will never be consistent and good dips will just be dumb luck when they happen.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 5,664Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    The reason you can't figure the one thing out that you are doing wrong, is because you have more than one thing going wrong. You have signs of underactivation and overactivation on the same part (points to inconsistent pattern or application technique) you have trapped air, and blown out pattern, and with some of these shapes the water is probably beating you. 

    If you actually want to do this right, you need to get some speed shapes, and do MUCH better documentation of what, how, how much, how fast, and how long you are spraying your activator. What paint and prep you are doing, and what angles you are dipping at... Or understand that a repeatable, and troubleshootable process is going to cost you a few grand at the very least and a few months of time.
  • CluelessClueless Posts: 38Member
    @DeviousDips @WileECoyote @NotSoFast
    Thanks guys, that's the same conclusion I came to, Under and over activation on the same piece, Water beating me to it..
    Currently I am using a 1.5 spray-gun, however, I'm not really happy with it. It's great for touch up spray painting, however I am not comfortable when spraying activator. As I live in Central Latin America getting what I need isn't the easiest thing to do. I have to import all my hydro-dip stock at a huge transport and import duties cost.

    I will however go to the city on Thursday and get a gravity fed spray-gun (I can only get a 1.8 here) my current spray-gun is vacuum fed 1.5 therefore I am running at high pressure which forces me to be a long distance from the film when activating or the film is blown out if I move any closer. This could be the cause of the under & over activation on the same film, possible cause distance, speed and pressure. (and of course crappy technique) :s

    Further to this I have noticed on my film that I am unable to get a glassy state when activating. I have activated to the glassy state stage, however when the item touches the film the film simply blows out and shreds itself. The film appears dusty immediately after activation. I have played around with the activator soak time from 30 seconds to 2 minutes with poor results.

    The Activator I have is called HYDROGLASS that I managed to bring in from the USA
    The film I purchase from China and although the patterns are the same as I've seen advertised in the USA the texture of the paper is completely different. Where the ones I've seen on the videos look a hell of a lot firmer, smoother and easier to manipulate.
    The water temp I use is between 89f to 94f (31.5c to 34.5c).

    I have now studied both of the items and I strongly feel that another problem is I'm rushing and not giving the items sufficient drying time after priming and base coating. I know under cured paint will not allow the hydro graphic to adhere to these spots.

    Unfortunately speed shapes are out of the question when trying to find any here, I've had to jump in and use what I can get, hence the hubcaps. I have managed to get two of the hubcaps right, but as stated this probably blind luck.

    Thanks for the advice and I will seriously look into changing my ways.


  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 8,700Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    That gun is your problem. Get rid of it and get a decent quality gravity feed HVLP, preferably a 1.3 or 1.8. Other tips will Work fine if you find a good gun. Make that your primary focus now. Since you’re not in the US, it makes it difficult to recommend. I don’t know what shipping would be from USA, but Jim can set up a good fun for you if you order from www.k2shoponline.com. The minimum quality gun I recommend is an Iwata Air Gunsa.
  • onehitwonderonehitwonder Posts: 2,615Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    Try this setup for activator guns
  • CluelessClueless Posts: 38Member
    @onehitwonder
    Thanks very much for the info and the video, I will see what guns are available in the city and will change it. I am also looking into ordering from Jim, However I do not know if he would supply me here as I have contacted many suppliers in the USA where some don't bother to respond, some simply tell me that they cannot supply outside of the USA and others have been quite rude in their responses. I have purchased what I can locally and everything else I have to import. However, the import duties are extremely high and I had to apply for a Hazmat Import Permit to bring in the activator where the permit took three to be issued at a ridiculously high cost. I'm hoping I don't need to change the activator as this will require another permit for the specific name brand.

    Again, thanks for the advice and change I will. =)
  • CluelessClueless Posts: 38Member
    @MidOhioHydrographics
    Hi,
    I will see what guns are available in the city and will change it. I am also looking into ordering from Jim, However I do not know if he would supply me here as I have contacted many suppliers in the USA where some don't bother to respond, some simply tell me that they cannot supply outside of the USA and others have been quite rude in their responses. I have purchased what I can locally and everything else I have to import. However, the import duties are extremely high and I had to apply for a Hazmat Import Permit to bring in the activator where the permit took three to be issued at a ridiculously high cost. I'm hoping I don't need to change the activator as this will require another permit for the specific name brand.

    Again, thanks for the advice and change I will. ;)
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,460Administrator El Jefe
    Depends on the order...chemicals we can sometimes do with a minimum order...and it can be costly...guns and other things? Yes we ship all over the planet...
  • CluelessClueless Posts: 38Member
    @K2Concepts
    Thanks, the guns will not be a problem to import, however the chems are as I need a Hazmat Import Permit for each type of chem and it takes a long time to get the dayum things and very costly.

    Thanks for all the help and a great forum
  • JeremyJeremy Posts: 1,087Member ✭✭✭
    @Clueless where abouts are you located?
  • CluelessClueless Posts: 38Member
    @Jeremy
    In the rain forest of Colombia, rural area
  • studebakerstudebaker Posts: 2,712Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Clueless Can you get 2K paint reducer and Xylene in your area?
  • CluelessClueless Posts: 38Member
    @studebaker
    Hi, xylene is impossible to get here, I spent 8 months looking for it as I have a formula chart to make activator. 2k paint is not a problem. I went to all the chem companies here I even flew to two different cities in my search, I eventually found a supplier in the USA for the Hydroglass activator that was prepared to ship it to me and ended up in all sorts of unnecessary trouble where I had to get a lawyer involved to sort out the mess.
  • studebakerstudebaker Posts: 2,712Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Clueless The 2K paint thinner will work as an activator if you can find the SLOW evaporation (hot weather) formula. It already has 8% Xylene in it. It will take some trial and error to get it right, but I have faith in you.... And please post your results for our other country brethren that need an alternative like you.
  • CluelessClueless Posts: 38Member
    @studebaker
    Thanks for the tip. however, I am now able to bring in the Hydroglass activator from the USA which I am using, I will see how I go and in an emergency I will give it a try. The manufacturer also suggested that I use a vinyl coating thinner / solvent as a possible replacement, however this did not work at all.

    I would appreciate any comments on the hydroglass activator if anyone has used it or has any knowledge of its behavior and bad habits.

    Have a great day
  • CluelessClueless Posts: 38Member
    @K2Concepts @studebaker @onehitwonder @ohiohunter @MidOhioHydrographics @Jeremy @WileECoyote @NotSoFast
    Hey All,
    Just a quick note to thank everyone for all of the advice, I did 4 hubcap dips today with great results and I am now really happy with my progress, I honestly cannot thank everyone that assisted me enough. I will post pics a little later where I no longer have all the holes and non adhesion issues I was having, I have almost straightened out my activation problems so again Thanks Guys
  • CluelessClueless Posts: 38Member
    @K2Concepts @studebaker @onehitwonder @ohiohunter @MidOhioHydrographics @Jeremy @WileECoyote @NotSoFast
    Hey Guys, Below are the pics from yesterdays and todays dip, I have not clear coated them as yet as I have some other items to dip and would like to hit them all at the same time.

    Please check the pics and comment, I have managed to achieve this because of your advice and would really appreciate comments on where this is at and any further faults you may find.








  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,138Member, Moderator El Moderator
    In the first two pictures, the film is still breaking apart in the recessed areas where it stretches. Looks like it's still a bit under activated. Are you back taping the openings in these pieces? It will allow the film to flow smoothly onto the tape instead of breaking off at the edge of the part. In the top one, it looks like you are trapping air along the recessed lips of the part. Try to alter the dip angle to allow that bubble of air to escape. Try almost 45 degrees to the water and push into the film as it goes in.
  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Posts: 1,142Member ✭✭✭✭
    I agree if you feed into the film I think you will be able to get into the openings better. 
  • CluelessClueless Posts: 38Member
    @NotSoFast @DeviousDips
    Thanks Gents,
    No I did not back tape the openings, makes sense to me why this needs to be done for the flow of the material. I did however push into the film where I now think I may have to increase the pushing speed and angle a little more as per your suggestion.I did get a better glassy look of the film while activating so I will decrease my speed there a little as well.

    I filmed my dip and compared it to the videos on the forum where I think I may be being over cautious upon entry into the film where entry speed, angle and motion is much slower than on the forum videos.

    Thanks Guys, your advise is highly appreciated, I will post pics of my redip.
  • CluelessClueless Posts: 38Member
    @K2Concepts @DeviousDips @NotSoFast @studebaker @MidOhioHydrographics @Jeremy @onehitwonder @WileECoyote
    Hello Gents, well I just spent four days going through everything on the forum (well almost everything) and a lot of things twice and three times.
    I really need to shout THANK YOU to all of you for all of your help. I was running late today and only managed to dips (below are the results). Please comment and advise.

    Huge Thanks Guys
    Andres












  • DeviousDipsDeviousDips Posts: 1,142Member ✭✭✭✭
    No need to Bash your head over these 2. Looking good. If you dont have one I would suggest in getting an airbrush as well. That way when you have little touch ups its not a big deal. Take notes as well so you know what you do with each film. Most will be similar but like woodgrains tend to need more activator, so stuff like that is nice to just look at your notes so your not wondering what you did different
  • CluelessClueless Posts: 38Member
    @DeviousDips
    Thanks, I do not have an airbrush and my best art is stick-men, I am aware that I am absolutely hopeless as an artist, therefore I will have to ensure every dip is perfect .... hahahaha ..... my daughter is a nail technician that does fine fingernail art, I'll try roping her in.

    Thanks for all the help
  • smedlinsmedlin Posts: 1,180Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭
    Clueless said:

    @DeviousDips
    Thanks, I do not have an airbrush and my best art is stick-men, I am aware that I am absolutely hopeless as an artist, therefore I will have to ensure every dip is perfect .... hahahaha ..... my daughter is a nail technician that does fine fingernail art, I'll try roping her in.

    Thanks for all the help

    We don't use an airbrush to actually draw, but to touch up or even darken areas.

    Sometimes I use an airbrush, sometimes I just use one of those small pencil brush things to touch up an area.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,460Administrator El Jefe
    smedlin said:

    Clueless said:

    @DeviousDips
    Thanks, I do not have an airbrush and my best art is stick-men, I am aware that I am absolutely hopeless as an artist, therefore I will have to ensure every dip is perfect .... hahahaha ..... my daughter is a nail technician that does fine fingernail art, I'll try roping her in.

    Thanks for all the help

    We don't use an airbrush to actually draw, but to touch up or even darken areas.

    Sometimes I use an airbrush, sometimes I just use one of those small pencil brush things to touch up an area.
    This...
  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,138Member, Moderator El Moderator
    The red one looks nice. The white one still has the voids in the recessed areas. It either needs a little more activator or more even application of it.
  • CluelessClueless Posts: 38Member
    @NotSoFast
    Yes the white one does still have some voids, however not as bad as what it was, I think it was under activated as there is cracking in the grey shading. Compared to what it was in my first set of over frustrated photos I am quite happy with the progress which is simply because of all the advice I've received from you guys for which I am most grateful.
  • CluelessClueless Posts: 38Member
    @K2Concepts @WileECoyote @NotSoFast @DeviousDips @smedlin @Jeremy @MidOhioHydrographics
    Hey All, another bit of advice please, what clear coat would you suggest, I would like to use a clear that would be super shiny, however it would have to be quite hardy to use on rims. (and that won't lift or crumple the frigging dip like the crap I've just used!)
    :o
  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,138Member, Moderator El Moderator
    Clueless said:

    @K2Concepts @WileECoyote @NotSoFast @DeviousDips @smedlin @Jeremy @MidOhioHydrographics
    Hey All, another bit of advice please, what clear coat would you suggest, I would like to use a clear that would be super shiny, however it would have to be quite hardy to use on rims. (and that won't lift or crumple the frigging dip like the crap I've just used!)
    :o

    I use OHW gloss and Dead Flat clear from Big Brain, personally.
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.