Printing hydrographics !!!! — K2Forums.com

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Printing hydrographics !!!!

Hi from the U.K.

Could anyone point me in the right direction, I have three canon imagePROGRAF's  2 W8400pg 44" and a more up to date 64" that are sat now due to the solvent printers we have being used more for the custom vinyl wrap printing,  I've been printing for 18years+, I was approached by a good friend who has his own hydro dip business and asked to do some custom hydrographics, so we got some new pigment ink, blank film, activator A and started testing, the prints turn out superb however when it comes to dipping the image just washes off.

now I've looked through the forums and spent about 20 hours doing so.

ok here goes, how much activator A do I use? We have done about 12 tests keeping it concise, only one has hit so far, now my friend has gone from less activator to more with no visible results and he's been in the game for about 8 years so pretty clued up.

the activator A I use is fixactive 






The image goes on ok but washes off completely after rinseThanks for listening 

Rich T
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Comments

  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,255Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited May 2017
    @studebaker @mountain_mike @liquidconcepts @blazingcoatings

    All these guys print custom films, so they can possibly help some. But beware, you're asking for some information that (as you have seen for yourself) took these guys a lot of research, trial and error, time, and money to figure out. Like the dipping world, there are still some things that guys (myself included) have to keep tight lipped about for competitive advantage.
  • studebakerstudebaker Posts: 2,970Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Chard7424 The Activator A is just a fixative to hold the ink together while the PVA film is hydrating. (As you probably know).

    The ink sticking to the basecoat is an entirely differently chemical reaction. You've made no mention of the type of base coat and the Activator (activator B.) that you are using. This is where your problem lies. Activator (B) has two functions, one is to melt the ink back to a liquid state and two, it "etches" the basecoat for ink adhesion. So, post pictures of the rinsed object, along with the activator and basecoat you're using.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,230Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Yeah, that is what I was thinking. You are more than likely having a typical "dipper" issue, not a "printer" issue. If you are using an aerosol paint as a base, that is a HUGE problem, if you are using a 2K "automotive" paint, that could be a problem as well.
  • Chard7424Chard7424 Posts: 8Member
    Thanks guys for getting back to me, I'm waiting for some more images and info on the base coat and activator used,  my friend is dipping the other side of the tank today, if it's possible I'll have a video of the process for you to have a look at
  • Chard7424Chard7424 Posts: 8Member
    edited May 2017
    @MidOhioHydrographics I understand where your coming from :)
  • mountain_mikemountain_mike Posts: 801Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    @Chard7424 if it's rinsing off completely after rinse the most likely culprit is your inks. It sounds as if you are using dye inks but i see you stated otherwise. Regardless i feel your inks may be the issue. Also as it could be your base coat.
  • Chard7424Chard7424 Posts: 8Member
    @mountain_mike hi there, the ink is original canon pigment ink BCI-1421BK brand new set, prior to new inks full flush through new head and so on, here is some pics for you all  :) the base coat I'm waiting for the make and also the activator make you will have to bare with me that 


  • mountain_mikemountain_mike Posts: 801Member ✭✭✭
    @Chard7424 im not going to rule out the base coat until we have the full details but i will say of your friend has been dipping for some time it is highly likely he is using good paint. Im going to research your inkset and get back to you
  • mountain_mikemountain_mike Posts: 801Member ✭✭✭
    Also i would like to ask if these photos is what it looks like after complete rinse or does it all COMPLETLEY come off
  • Chard7424Chard7424 Posts: 8Member
    @mountain_mike Yes it all comes off the only one that hit ok is a speed shape, 
  • Chard7424Chard7424 Posts: 8Member
  • mountain_mikemountain_mike Posts: 801Member ✭✭✭
    Given that it stuck to the speed shape i would definitely be blaming the base coat
  • studebakerstudebaker Posts: 2,970Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bingo! @mountain_mike You nailed it.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,230Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Yeah, stop concentrating on the print portion of this, and get us the info about the paint... cause it sounding more and more like your problem, and it started out already sounding like your problem.
  • Chard7424Chard7424 Posts: 8Member
    the prints/patterns my mate buys in for day to day business , work fine on this base coat The activator works with them as well,  It's just the prints I'm developing are not working for us, it may sound like I'm questioning and dismissing the comments, and for that I am truly sorry, but here is some pics of the job he had in today same make base coat same activator.


    As as you can see he's not a novice, he has trained and gives support to countless companies in the U.K.

    we are however going to run 12 test runs on 4 different activators, we are not out for glory with this we are two mates with a passion for custom artwork instead of generic design.  :)
  • Chard7424Chard7424 Posts: 8Member
    Thanks for all the advice guys you are an awesome bunch @studebaker @mountain_mike @WileECoyote @MidOhioHydrographics ;

    It's 23:15 over here and I'm going home !!!  =)
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,230Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Keep in mind, some paints work... Sometimes
  • gardnerdddgardnerddd Posts: 220Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    Did you do a light sand on the base coat before you dipped the custom film? Also after dip did you let the item sit out for a few minutes before you tried to rinse off? If not, I would try both. A light sand will allow the ink to grab to the item better. Letting sit for about 10 minutes before rinse will also let the ink settle back down. Also, your activator has a lot to do with it, use the mildest one you have.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,230Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @gardnerddd Haven't heard from you in a while. Glad to see you are still kicking around!
  • gardnerdddgardnerddd Posts: 220Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    @WileECoyote Thanks! Glad to be back, it's been crazy, but its all good now!!
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 9,255Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @gardnerddd it's Damien, right? I believe you were at my shop for the very first Ohio Remote?
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,230Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Yep, nice guy, soft-spoken. Couldn't remember if it was the first Kansas Remote or the first Ohio remote. Suppose I could look back at the class pics
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 13,137Administrator El Jefe
    He was at the first Ohio remote...and looks like he is coming aboard as a sponsor...
  • HomeTownHydroHomeTownHydro Posts: 90Member
    Nice job my friend
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 6,230Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    @gardnerddd did you get your process to work? If it is not public knowledge yet, I can wait for the answer with the rest of us.
  • DJScootsDJScoots Posts: 2Member
    I'd like to see the results if this was working too. I have the same issue but mine rinse off speed shapes too. I am using Pigment ink and paper bought from Hugas. Can anyone recommend a pigment ink that I can use to refill my cartridges rather than just a generic one off Ebay?

    Thanks everyone. I have a customer who's waiting for this so he can have a Harry Potter designed x-box :)
  • studebakerstudebaker Posts: 2,970Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    @gardnerddd @DJScoots has a question you might be able to help with....
  • gardnerdddgardnerddd Posts: 220Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    @DJScoots - If you don't mind telling me, what printer you use? There is also a guy there in the UK that sell pigment ink that I believe will work. Let me find his information for you as well.
  • gardnerdddgardnerddd Posts: 220Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭
    @DJScoots - I am pretty sure this guy can help you out. He sells the printers as well. I would send him an email through ebay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Epson-Stylus-Pro-Hydrographic-Film-Dipping-Hydro-Transfer-100m-inks-/142369940216?hash=item2125e8e2f8
  • SaltyCityHydroDipsSaltyCityHydroDips Posts: 10Member
    Any advice on a good pigment ink for a Canon Pixma Pro 10?
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