So I looked at Nanochem, but what about PCL 26? — K2Forums.com

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So I looked at Nanochem, but what about PCL 26?

norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭
I like the thought of the Nanochem having good wear resistance. But I look at the mix ratio on Bigbrain's site and it says 8:1 with reducer and 6% hardener. That is going to be tough to mix as I usually mix very small amounts when I clear. Plus, I think $32.00 to ship a gallon of clear and a pint of hardener is just too steep. Not that I couldn't justify it I guess, but shipping like that is why I stay off Ebay...

So I was also looking at PCL 26. From what I have read here and other sites, it seems to have good wear resistance. With a standard 4:1 mix ratio, it will be easier to use. Also read that it gets dead flat if you use a bit of reducer or acetone in the mix.

So, for the guys that use or have used it. Is it tough and easy to use? Thanks..
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Comments

  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 8,707Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    edited March 2017
    PCL 26 is a great clear. Put it on thin and/or reduce w acetone 10%. One medium-wet coat only or it glosses up. It's very hard. Hardest in pencil test of all I tried, I believe.

    We don't reduce NanoChem anymore. Just mix 16:1 or (8:1/2). It's always dead flat unless it dries in a puddle or run. We do one heavy wet coat.

    Also Big Brain's dead flat is top notch as well.

    As far as pricing goes, figure it up as cost per ounce and figure about 2-3oz per gun. Calculate the difference in what you're saving in one clear over another. Probably $1-$3 maybe? Just a complete guess. Even $5 isn't going to break you or your profit margins are WAY to narrow. Find a clear you like to spray and can trust, and then stick with it.
  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,140Member, Moderator El Moderator
    Paint and clear are listed as hazardous materials. That's why it's so expensive to ship them.
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭
    NotSoFast said:

    Paint and clear are listed as hazardous materials. That's why it's so expensive to ship them.

    Their is no hazmat fee on paints as far as shipping goes. I but paint and supplies like reducer all the time from Autobody toolmart. Shipping is cheap
    .
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭

    PCL 26 is a great clear. Put it on thin and/or reduce w acetone 10%. One medium-wet coat only or it glosses up. It's very hard. Hardest in pencil test of all I tried, I believe.

    We don't reduce NanoChem anymore. Just mix 16:1 or (8:1/2). It's always dead flat unless it dries in a puddle or run. We do one heavy wet coat.

    Also Big Brain's dead flat is top notch as well.

    As far as pricing goes, figure it up as cost per ounce and figure about 2-3oz per gun. Calculate the difference in what you're saving in one clear over another. Probably $1-$3 maybe? Just a complete guess. Even $5 isn't going to break you or your profit margins are WAY to narrow. Find a clear you like to spray and can trust, and then stick with it.

    At 16:1 on Nanochem, the price difference is minimal between the two shipped to my door. It just pisses me off to spend 30 or 40 bucks for shipping. Just a personal deal I guess.

    So Nanochem over PCL26?
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 8,707Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    No, definitely didn't say that. I say buy a pint of both and test them, then go with the one you personally prefer. They're both great clears.
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭
    Okay I'll give them a try. Thanks.
  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,140Member, Moderator El Moderator

    NotSoFast said:

    Paint and clear are listed as hazardous materials. That's why it's so expensive to ship them.

    Their is no hazmat fee on paints as far as shipping goes. I but paint and supplies like reducer all the time from Autobody toolmart. Shipping is cheap
    .
    Hmm...both our post office and UPS outlets have paint listed as hazardous materials on their posters on the walls.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 5,673Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Solvent based paint is DEFIANTLY hazardous material. Water based paint is not. Anyone shipping solvents without that classification is breaking Federal law.
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,476Administrator El Jefe
    Nanochem also has a water based flat clear...I like that one also...but we have used all 3 and they all work pretty good...
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭
    Solvent based paints are hazardous materials, BUT are not subject to hazmat fees that I know of like gun powder and some other chemicals are. I get gun power shipped for $35, but there is a $21 or so extra hazmat fee included in that price.
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭
    I think I'll just buy a gallon of Nanochem. You guys are using it and seem to like it. I can get it from BigBrain so I'll be supporting a sponsor. The PCL 26 I found was on Ebay.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 8,707Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    If you want PCL just call Ellis directly. They'll deal with you. Probably get a better price than Amazon. But if I remember right they're in Cali, so shipping sucked. NanoChem drop ships their drums direct to me and they're just in Indiana. Works out well.
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭

    If you want PCL just call Ellis directly. They'll deal with you. Probably get a better price than Amazon. But if I remember right they're in Cali, so shipping sucked. NanoChem drop ships their drums direct to me and they're just in Indiana. Works out well.

    I'm actually in Cali.
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭

    If you want PCL just call Ellis directly. They'll deal with you. Probably get a better price than Amazon. But if I remember right they're in Cali, so shipping sucked. NanoChem drop ships their drums direct to me and they're just in Indiana. Works out well.

    I'm actually in Cali.
    FYI. If Ellis is PCL, they will not sell directly. They referred me to one of their distributors.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 8,707Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator

    If you want PCL just call Ellis directly. They'll deal with you. Probably get a better price than Amazon. But if I remember right they're in Cali, so shipping sucked. NanoChem drop ships their drums direct to me and they're just in Indiana. Works out well.

    I'm actually in Cali.
    FYI. If Ellis is PCL, they will not sell directly. They referred me to one of their distributors.
    Hmmmm... they did for me. Maybe only larger orders? I think I only ordered a couple gallons tho.
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭

    If you want PCL just call Ellis directly. They'll deal with you. Probably get a better price than Amazon. But if I remember right they're in Cali, so shipping sucked. NanoChem drop ships their drums direct to me and they're just in Indiana. Works out well.

    I'm actually in Cali.
    FYI. If Ellis is PCL, they will not sell directly. They referred me to one of their distributors.
    Hmmmm... they did for me. Maybe only larger orders? I think I only ordered a couple gallons tho.
    Nope, they sent me to their distributor. The distributor said I couldn't buy from them either, they they only sell to paint stores and refured my to my local paint store, which with my discount was $209.00 for a gallon with hardner. So, ill just order some Nanachem from BigBrain and be done with it.

    Thanks for your help...
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 8,707Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator

    If you want PCL just call Ellis directly. They'll deal with you. Probably get a better price than Amazon. But if I remember right they're in Cali, so shipping sucked. NanoChem drop ships their drums direct to me and they're just in Indiana. Works out well.

    I'm actually in Cali.
    FYI. If Ellis is PCL, they will not sell directly. They referred me to one of their distributors.
    Hmmmm... they did for me. Maybe only larger orders? I think I only ordered a couple gallons tho.
    Nope, they sent me to their distributor. The distributor said I couldn't buy from them either, they they only sell to paint stores and refured my to my local paint store, which with my discount was $209.00 for a gallon with hardner. So, ill just order some Nanachem from BigBrain and be done with it.

    Thanks for your help...
    Jesus. Yeah no kidding, that's insanely high. When I was getting bulk pricing the most expensive was 4+ gallon kits at $160/1.25 mixed gallons, and cheapest was... wait for it... $78.04 for the same (if I ordered 48 gallon kits). See how buying in bulk can save? THAT is part of what you need to take into consideration with consistent production accounts. Remember this was also a few years ago. I know it doesn't really apply to most people, but was looking up the pricing and thought I'd throw it out there.
  • WileECoyoteWileECoyote Posts: 5,673Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Paint suppliers seem to be the worst. They REALLY don't want to deal with the little guys. Even buying in 5 gallon containers saves us $200-300 over buying individual gallons
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Yeah, I just don't get it. In any event, I ordered a gallon of Nanochem 0% flat from BigBrain. Going to do some testing. I'm sure it will better than what I have been using for what I want to use it for.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 8,707Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Make sure you mix it extremely well, like any matte clear. The matting agents can gunk up on the bottom. I recommend a mixing lid to mix it rather than just shaking. Helps break it all up. I get Dedoes from the local shop, or order a Rocker Mixing Mate from Rockler.com. They're on sale often.
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭
    Looks like it comes in a gallon jug not a gallon can. Might be a problem mixing. Ill grab a gallon can from the local paint store so I can mix it good before I use it.
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 8,707Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator

    Looks like it comes in a gallon jug not a gallon can. Might be a problem mixing. Ill grab a gallon can from the local paint store so I can mix it good before I use it.

    Yeah that would be good. That's what I do with anything that comes in a jug.
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭
    The product I'm using now comes in a cam, but when you are doing a tiny amount at a time, it can be tedious to stir for 10-15 minutes each time. So what I do is get it stirred real good, then pour off a quart in a quart can. The quart stirs up much easier. I like the stuff (Kirker matte clear) as it shoots nice and is real flat as long as you dont stack it, but in the tests I have done, it not that tough. Now their EC300 HS gloss clear is another story. Shoots real nice and flat, and is hard as nails. Denibs and polishes real nice too for a couple of days. I will continue to use the gloss clear, but not the matte clear. Hoping the Nanochem works out good for me. Seems pretty popular with the hydro guys here and other places I have researched.
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭
    I finally got my Nanochem in. Had a bit of a nightmare getting it here. Gave it a try and did two medium coats on a speed shape I dipped. It came out with a bit of gloss. Its very hard to measure a small amount being the ratio it gets used at, so that may have been the issue of it glossing a bit.

    Do any of you have a good way of converting volume to weight? I know because of specific gravity of different liquids, it may very hard to do. I guess I could get a medium size syringe and measure it by cc's or something like that. Any suggestions?
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 8,707Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Don't do two medium coats. One wet coat and stop. We have never had a Gloss issue unless it's in a drip. I have even done 2-3 coats.

    Just to clarify, it's the NanoChem Zero Gloss correct? And you stirred/mixed it very very thoroughly before pouring into your cup?

    I could get you an excel spreadsheet, or get smaller (like pint size) mixing cups for measuring small volumes. Will make it more accurate, especially with the 8:1:0.5 ratio required.

    But let me see what I can do for the excel spreadsheet. I'll post something up here in a bit and let some other guys check it over. Could be a nice tool for anyone on here.
  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,140Member, Moderator El Moderator
    edited April 2017
    I've not used the Nanochem, but with the Big Brain Dead Flat, one wet coat is all it takes. Gloss it over once and it turns out perfectly flat.

    Oh, and make sure to mix it more than you think it needs. Stir until you think it's good enough, then do it again. My matte turns out better when I do it like this.
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭

    Don't do two medium coats. One wet coat and stop. We have never had a Gloss issue unless it's in a drip. I have even done 2-3 coats.

    Just to clarify, it's the NanoChem Zero Gloss correct? And you stirred/mixed it very very thoroughly before pouring into your cup?

    I could get you an excel spreadsheet, or get smaller (like pint size) mixing cups for measuring small volumes. Will make it more accurate, especially with the 8:1:0.5 ratio required.

    But let me see what I can do for the excel spreadsheet. I'll post something up here in a bit and let some other guys check it over. Could be a nice tool for anyone on here.

    Yes, its the zero gloss. Going to do more testing of course. I know you have said in the past one coat and done. Is that just one medium wet coat?. I'm going to do some scratch tests on it today then try a single coat. Id like to like to see your spreadsheet. Thanks
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 8,707Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    On our production we lay it on wet wet. Using a 1.4 Supernova and hammering it. Thousands of parts every week. Remember Adhesion/durability testing needs to be done after about a week. Let it fully cure. But we can handle and package parts after 10 minutes in front of IR (about 140-150 deg part temp).
  • MidOhioHydrographicsMidOhioHydrographics Posts: 8,707Member, Moderator, Business Ninja El Moderator
    Ok, here's what I came up with. I hope someone can double check my work because I'm sure I screwed up somewhere. Anyone remember enough basic chemistry to do these conversions?! LOL I just used the weight/volume of the coatings and converted it to measure in grams. Seems to be correct when I back calculate everything. Green boxes are values you need to enter, italics are calculated from those values.
  • norcalfranknorcalfrank Posts: 849Member ✭✭✭

    Ok, here's what I came up with. I hope someone can double check my work because I'm sure I screwed up somewhere. Anyone remember enough basic chemistry to do these conversions?! LOL I just used the weight/volume of the coatings and converted it to measure in grams. Seems to be correct when I back calculate everything. Green boxes are values you need to enter, italics are calculated from those values.

    You are the man! Thanks for putting the work, @MidOhioHydrographics (sorry, I don't know your name). I think this will work great for me. Hope others can use it. I'll go try it and let you know. One wet coat...
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