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Film all gloopy or not clinging to whole part

Irish_RamIrish_Ram Posts: 34Member
Hi There,

New to this Hydro Dipping and gt my 1st test kit today.

I have followed the steps below the 2 attempts I have made have resulted in initially the film goes all gloopy on the part and then went too flaky and does not cover the whole part.

The process I am following is:

Scuff and clean part
Prime
Base Coat - Gloss Black
Fill bucket with luke warm water
Place film in sticky side down taped around the sides with slits in corner and sides
Leave for between 60-90 secs
Spray Activator on and leave for 20 seconds
Dip part at a 40-45 degree angle slowly
Move around under the water and then take out

Can anyone let me know what I am doing wrong. Thanks

Comments

  • airtimegrafixairtimegrafix Posts: 2,086Member ✭✭✭✭
    pics of parts after dip and more info! what kit what base coat ect! but I'm guessing its the gloss black! how long did you let it dry before dip
  • Irish_RamIrish_Ram Posts: 34Member
    Sorry, I ended up taking them back to original to prime again so no pics. It was a kit I got off ebay so. Now you say that it may be. The gloopy one which did not show any of the pattern was the one I sprayed in Gloss Black. However the flaky one I just did as a test on the bare aluminum part to see if I could figure out what is the cause.

    The bare aluminum attempt did show the pattern where it stuck on but was very light so that would backup that the gloss black was causing the pattern be non existent.

    I have a Black Carbon film so was using grey primer but what would be a better base coat or would I need to actually use one
  • airtimegrafixairtimegrafix Posts: 2,086Member ✭✭✭✭
    you have to base coat. you cant dip without it, except to abs plastic! what kit is it?
  • Irish_RamIrish_Ram Posts: 34Member
    Okay I thought so, what base coat would you recommend for a carbon black film. I have now primed both parts and am leaving them to dry for a few hours/overnight and can then purchase a base coat tomorrow.

    Hydro-Monster HM240+ is the activator I am using.
  • airtimegrafixairtimegrafix Posts: 2,086Member ✭✭✭✭
    use some dupli color dark silver. pretty much any base color will work but stay away from rustolium or gloss ! use satin or flat!!!
  • airtimegrafixairtimegrafix Posts: 2,086Member ✭✭✭✭
    if you plan on wanting to do a pro job you need to dump the ebay kit and get stuff from sponsers on this site!!! it will make learning how to do this way eaiser!!!
  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,138Member, Moderator El Moderator
    You should use an automotive grade paint in the color that matches what you want your part to look like. If your black carbon film is black/transparent, then a dark silver or graphite metallic would probably be the one you want. This process does not usually like off the shelf aerosol paints such as Rustoleum or Krylon. Some have luck with them from time to time, but it's iffy at best.

    Aerosol activator is not recommended either. It doesn't lay down the material in an even enough pattern to be consistent in your application. Youtube makes this look WAY easier than it actually is. Even with proper training and the best tools and materials, you are looking at 6 months to a year and several thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to get "decent" at dipping.

    Are you trying to dip a certain item for yourself or are you just trying a new hobby? If you just need some stuff dipped for yourself, it's be MUCH easier, faster, and cheaper to pay a professional to dip them for you. If it's for a hibby, be warned that even for a casual "hobby" setup, you are looking at $5-10k to get consistent results and that's after about a year of practice.
  • Irish_RamIrish_Ram Posts: 34Member
    Thanks a lot, yeah I think the idea was see if I can do it initially and then get a proper kit. Finish may not be the best but even with this kit it allows me to perfect the process as I have already learned today.

    Getting a proper temp monitor tomorrow and will get some good base coat tomorrow
  • Irish_RamIrish_Ram Posts: 34Member
    NotSoFast said:

    You should use an automotive grade paint in the color that matches what you want your part to look like. If your black carbon film is black/transparent, then a dark silver or graphite metallic would probably be the one you want. This process does not usually like off the shelf aerosol paints such as Rustoleum or Krylon. Some have luck with them from time to time, but it's iffy at best.

    Aerosol activator is not recommended either. It doesn't lay down the material in an even enough pattern to be consistent in your application. Youtube makes this look WAY easier than it actually is. Even with proper training and the best tools and materials, you are looking at 6 months to a year and several thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to get "decent" at dipping.

    Are you trying to dip a certain item for yourself or are you just trying a new hobby? If you just need some stuff dipped for yourself, it's be MUCH easier, faster, and cheaper to pay a professional to dip them for you. If it's for a hibby, be warned that even for a casual "hobby" setup, you are looking at $5-10k to get consistent results and that's after about a year of practice.

    Thanks for the advice, it is just a new hobby as I have carbon wrapped a lot of my parts on my car and saw the dipping so wanted to try it.

    I agree you tube makes things look a lot easier than they are but I am the kind of person who likes trying things and generally with the right process can get good results and right tools of course. Already got a few tips from todays failures so will try again tomorrow and see how better the results are

  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,138Member, Moderator El Moderator
    Just know that you may be able to improve your results using aerosol activator, but very little of the techniques used will carry over to using a gun if you choose to upgrade later on. Basically you would be spinning your wheels in the long run. You can learn what under and over activation looks like and learn how not to trap air and how to back tape parts, etc with your current setup, though.
  • Irish_RamIrish_Ram Posts: 34Member
    NotSoFast said:

    Just know that you may be able to improve your results using aerosol activator, but very little of the techniques used will carry over to using a gun if you choose to upgrade later on. Basically you would be spinning your wheels in the long run. You can learn what under and over activation looks like and learn how not to trap air and how to back tape parts, etc with your current setup, though.

    I get you now so no matter how expert I get with a spray it is going to do little for the technique I would need with a gun. You sound like you have quite a wealth of experience in this area but would you say someone who has perfected using a spray could get good enough results for personal use?

    I have learned little bits already in terms of how to place it in the water and seem to have got the technique of getting it pretty smooth (although only using small amounts). I think it is the activation part that seem quite complicated as I am using black carbon film, it does not look that different after 60 seconds of being in the water apart from being a lot smoother or is that the key to say it is. Also once I have sprayed the activator my carbon seems to split and shrink on itself rather than expand if that makes sense.

    When you say back tape, are you talking about taping the edges on the water side as i have seen a couple do that which I was not sure why?

    Thanks for all the help by they way :)

  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,138Member, Moderator El Moderator
    Back taping: applying tape to the trailing edges of a part so that the film flows off the part smoothly onto the tape, THEN breaks off at the edge of the tape, and doesn't break off unevenly on the edge of your part.

    Aerosol activator: you may get a good dip using it from time to time. It's possible, but it is not consistent. That is the number one word in dipping..."consistency". The amount of activator, the size of droplets sprayed, the speed of your passes, the number of passes. They all have to be consistent. You need a consistent "fog" of activator. Not droplets of varying sizes. Large droplets can cause over activation in one area while at the same time, a spot that didn't get enough will be under activated...all on the same part. The Youtube videos are deceiving. They dip many items while filming and don't show the part after rinsing where 90% of the problems surface. They edit out all of the bad dips and only show the one good one.

    For "personal use", I'd just bring my parts to someone who has the proper equipment and knowledge and pay them to do it. It's going to be much cheaper in the long run. There's no way your items you want dipped will cost anywhere near the $5-10k that a halfway decent hobby setup will cost. Plus, you'll have your parts decorated in a week or two, versus the 6 months to a year it'd take to learn what you need to know to get professional results.

    I'm not against new folks getting into dipping, but in my experience on this forum, almost daily we have people that have no clue what it takes to dip items well and even less of an idea of how much time and money it takes to get consistently good results. I'm not judging the new guys, just doling out the facts so no one jumps in feet first without knowing how deep the pool (or in this case, the ocean) is.

    Take pictures and/or video of all of your dips. It will help us to diagnose any problems. As far as the cracking/splitting of the film, make sure it's on the water correctly. Wet your forefinger and thumb, pinch a corner of the film and hold for 10 seconds. The side that sticks goes down on the water. Sticky side down, just like applying a decal.
  • Irish_RamIrish_Ram Posts: 34Member
    Not brilliant but followed the process as best I could and this was my 1st outcome which I am happy with but have a couple of questions if okay. The process I followed was

    Prepped the Item
    Wet Sand and Clean
    Primer Grey - 3 light coats with 10 minutes drying time
    Scuffed part up
    Base Coat Silver - 3 light coats with 10 minutes drying time
    Allowed to cure overnight
    Slightly scuffed

    Ordered some different carbon film which was better quality

    Filled container to 30 degree temp
    Cutout film leaving about 1-1.5 inches either side
    Taped the sides and made a slit at each corner and halfway down each side
    Back taped the part

    Sat film sticky side down in water and left for 60 seconds until very tight looking and smooth
    Shook can and lightly sprayed activator over the part
    Film started to spread almost straight away so after about 10 seconds dipped the part at a 35-45 degree angle slowly.
    Swirled in the water and then flipped out.
    Left for 5 minutes and then slowly rinsed the residue off and then left to dry

    It is not perfect but I am happy with the result however it is lighter than I want so my question is why is this do you know. Only 2 things I can think of is the patter spread too quickly before dipping or my silver base coat is too light so what would be better for black carbon film.

  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,460Administrator El Jefe
    Just the way that film look with a silver base...we use a charcoal gray/silver looking base coat and it brings the look way down...not as bright if you know what I mean...
  • Irish_RamIrish_Ram Posts: 34Member
    Nice one, seen some videos where they have used like a matt black base coat so would this make is more like this colour as this was done on a black base coat


  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,138Member, Moderator El Moderator
    We use a metallic charcoal gray for most of our carbon fiber dips as shown on the left speed shape in the pic...


  • Irish_RamIrish_Ram Posts: 34Member
    NotSoFast said:

    We use a metallic charcoal gray for most of our carbon fiber dips as shown on the left speed shape in the pic...


    Cheers, that is exactly the effect I am after, do you have a link for the film you use by any chance to so I can make sure I am not using a low quality one
  • K2ConceptsK2Concepts Posts: 12,460Administrator El Jefe
    Kansas Hydrographics Black Carbon #501...
  • NotSoFastNotSoFast Posts: 3,138Member, Moderator El Moderator

    Kansas Hydrographics Black Carbon #501...

    Exactly.

    The paint is Metallic charcoal gray from @kansashydro .
  • onehitwonderonehitwonder Posts: 2,615Member, Business Ninja ✭✭✭✭✭
    OHW sells a carbon kit you may want to try - 1/2 pints of graphite, silver, and gold metallic will give you a nice range of options


    Remember back when everyone was tinting their clear black, to go over the silver black dip?
  • Irish_RamIrish_Ram Posts: 34Member
    Got a new film and thermometer to get the temperature correct and very happy with the latest results. This was using a grey primer and graphite grey basecoat with 30 degree water. Ordered some better film which works with white basecoat now I am getting the hang of it.





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